dj_jake

i dont know the basis behind it, im no skyline expert, but from what i do know, in japan, the general consensus seems to be that the R33 was a failure over the R32, and the R34 brought the skyline back to the forefront of japanese super sports cars.

6Msentra

i want to know why!!!! considering their performance was generally equal throughout the generations, and it was an r33 v-spec that (controversially) was a sub-8minute car around the ring (at a time when there were less than a handful of production cars that had done it) with Dirk Schoysman at the wheel.

anyways i'm sure prospect can tell us in great engineering detail because he is such a student of the marque. after all his life for the past 4 years has revolved around nothing but the skyline gtr

SuprAdam

^ He is asking his buddy Google right now.

Pro$p3ct

^actually, Google has definitely assisted me in my research over the years. Don't get me wrong, I didnt mean to come across as flaming the r33 for being sub-par as to the other two gtr's, but remember, the r33 had to compete with the mkIV supra, and the rx-7 during those times, which is why Japan treated it as a failure. After everybody saw the way the r32 dominated, it seemed the r33 would still be on top of the competition. However, it wasn't so. And u seem like a more knowledgeable person wen it comes to cars than me, so u should know that responsiveness is important. Just to prove how important it is to be responsive, watch this video.
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can someone please fix the link?

6Msentra

YouTube - AMUSE Supra vs MINES Skyline GTR

well again youre going about this the wrong way, and comparing a car that was purpose built to show good engine response while turboed, to other cars.
we must talk about stock cars. i can mod a car to do anything i want it to do, the same way racing cars have to follow certain class rules, and sometimes are restricted to even the field.

so heres a nice video of the r33 gtr beating an r32 gtr's time around the 'ring, by over 20 seconds. that..... is huge ....for a car that is basically the same, but heavier, less "streamlined", less responsive, and generally crappier as a "supercar"

YouTube - r33 gtr attacking nurburgring

Pro$p3ct

I'm sorry but u must've misunderstood the reason I showed that video. It was specifically to show what a vehicle with good engine response can do. Every1 knows that torque is important, but this proves that engine response is almost as important, if not the same.

Secondly, if u were reading my posts, my reason was given for why the r33 was a failure. Please re-read my post.

6Msentra

i read it.. but i'm still going to bust your ***** over all of your previous statements. youve said a lot of things that you cant back up!

ive been trying to see if you understand what engine response is? and how you can quantify it "lacking" in the r33 versus the r32 and the r34. unfortunately you cant, because you dont understand 1: the significance of that video and what "ultimate response means... or at least you cant put it into words, and/or 2: there is little to no difference between the generations of late 80's+ skyline other than peoples perception of them... which you have clearly bought into, without knowing why.

as far as the mines skyline, i'm sure its transient response is good... but its good relative to other turbocharged cars. its still not as good as an atmos car, as you simply cant compare the two, although you can get pretty damn close if you set it up to be responsive. i'm not going to write a book to you on how that is done, but i'm sure google will continue to be your friend.

coles: r33 was better than r32. r34 was better than r33. these are based on absolute performance, although the differences were very small between them

judgez24

for those of us less informed souls, what exactly is engine response?

SuprAdam

^ For a forced induction vehicle, off boost power and minimal turbo lag with an optimal power band while still having adequate power/torque to go fast.

judgez24

gotcha, well im lucky i na sense then i guss ebcause i build boost just over 2000 rpm and my cams help me hit full boost real fast

6Msentra

response is the relationship between throttle position and engine power, and the speed at which parity is met. it also relates to the adjustability of the throttle. in a turbo car this response is always a little "mushy" even with the smallest turbo, in a properly sized application, properly tuned, there is still a disconnection between throttle and acceleration/deceleration. in an n/a car, you feel as though you can meter in .3% more throttle and have the exact amount of power added. this allows you to control wheelspin better in a drag situation, and place the car better on a line in a track situation.

judgez24

so a supercharged car would carry this advantage well then no?

6Msentra

a supercharged car will have the same instant response of an allmotor car because the charger is run off the rotation of the engine. every increase/decrease in throttle angle is met with the same immediate increase/decrease in power.
don't you already know this ? lol

Pro$p3ct

Ok. You win. The r33 was better than the r32. Can you tell me why it couldn't perform as well against the competition?

ALLAN_M

iTrader: (1)

cuz the competition uped its game as well
MK3 supra and mk4 is a huge difference
and same with the rx-7