Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:23:42 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> wrote:

>On 2/8/04 6:35 PM, in article Xns9489C75DA6E05teggeratistop@207.14.113.17,
>"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "tflfb" <fuksatw@qwest.net> spake unto the masses in
>> news:6e7Vb.247$gu2.10478@news.uswest.net:
>>
>>> If there made by Fram which I use why not just buy a Fram at Wal-mart
>>> $2.89 ea.
>>
>>
>> Because all Honda is only using is FRAM's manufacturing facilities. Honda
>> and other automakers rely on outside suppliers for most of their parts.
>>
>> Honda has much more strigent (and expensive) requirements for its OEM
>> products than FRAM has for its own aftermarket products.
>>
>> The days of a vertically-integrated Ford-type "River Rouge" plant, where
>> iron ore went in one end and cars went out the other has been dead for many
>> decades.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2scnj
>>
>>
>
>It seems to become a "given" in the discussions groups now that putting a
>Fram oil filter on your car is tantamount to committing murder against your
>engine.
>
>In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the only
>oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a '96 Honda
>(the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out past the gasket
>onto the road).
>
>I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure with
>a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil filter?

Check the Extra Guard here http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
and the comments here http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt
both linked from http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Note the Extra Guard filter element colapsed and clogged oil passages -
can't get much worse.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

On 2/9/04 2:46 PM, in article Xns948AA06F7A4B9teggeratistop@207.14.113.17,
"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
> news:BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org:
>
>>
>> It seems to become a "given" in the discussions groups now that
>> putting a Fram oil filter on your car is tantamount to committing
>> murder against your engine.
>
>
> I'm one of the few that thinks FRAM turns out a damn fine product, so long
> as they have to work to Honda's requirments.
>
>
>>
>> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the
>> only oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a
>> '96 Honda (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out
>> past the gasket onto the road).
>
>
> If the bypass "failed", then the element was clogged and the bypass valve
> was probably plugged up as well. How long was the filter in place for?

3 weeks and 2,000 miles.

>
> FRAM bypass valves as used on the Honda filters are pretty much foolproof.
> Very simple and durable.
> http://www.tegger.com/honda_filter_comparo.html
>
>>
>> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure
>> with a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil
>> filter?
>
>
> Good question!! DOCUMENTED answers anybody?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

On 2/9/04 2:46 PM, in article Xns948AA06F7A4B9teggeratistop@207.14.113.17,
"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
> news:BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org:
>
>>
>> It seems to become a "given" in the discussions groups now that
>> putting a Fram oil filter on your car is tantamount to committing
>> murder against your engine.
>
>
> I'm one of the few that thinks FRAM turns out a damn fine product, so long
> as they have to work to Honda's requirments.
>
>
>>
>> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the
>> only oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a
>> '96 Honda (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out
>> past the gasket onto the road).
>
>
> If the bypass "failed", then the element was clogged and the bypass valve
> was probably plugged up as well. How long was the filter in place for?

3 weeks and 2,000 miles.

>
> FRAM bypass valves as used on the Honda filters are pretty much foolproof.
> Very simple and durable.
> http://www.tegger.com/honda_filter_comparo.html
>
>>
>> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure
>> with a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil
>> filter?
>
>
> Good question!! DOCUMENTED answers anybody?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

On 2/9/04 2:46 PM, in article Xns948AA06F7A4B9teggeratistop@207.14.113.17,
"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
> news:BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org:
>
>>
>> It seems to become a "given" in the discussions groups now that
>> putting a Fram oil filter on your car is tantamount to committing
>> murder against your engine.
>
>
> I'm one of the few that thinks FRAM turns out a damn fine product, so long
> as they have to work to Honda's requirments.
>
>
>>
>> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the
>> only oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a
>> '96 Honda (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out
>> past the gasket onto the road).
>
>
> If the bypass "failed", then the element was clogged and the bypass valve
> was probably plugged up as well. How long was the filter in place for?

3 weeks and 2,000 miles.

>
> FRAM bypass valves as used on the Honda filters are pretty much foolproof.
> Very simple and durable.
> http://www.tegger.com/honda_filter_comparo.html
>
>>
>> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure
>> with a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil
>> filter?
>
>
> Good question!! DOCUMENTED answers anybody?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

On 2/9/04 2:46 PM, in article Xns948AA06F7A4B9teggeratistop@207.14.113.17,
"Tegger®" <teggeratistopdotcom@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> spake unto the masses in
> news:BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org:
>
>>
>> It seems to become a "given" in the discussions groups now that
>> putting a Fram oil filter on your car is tantamount to committing
>> murder against your engine.
>
>
> I'm one of the few that thinks FRAM turns out a damn fine product, so long
> as they have to work to Honda's requirments.
>
>
>>
>> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the
>> only oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a
>> '96 Honda (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out
>> past the gasket onto the road).
>
>
> If the bypass "failed", then the element was clogged and the bypass valve
> was probably plugged up as well. How long was the filter in place for?

3 weeks and 2,000 miles.

>
> FRAM bypass valves as used on the Honda filters are pretty much foolproof.
> Very simple and durable.
> http://www.tegger.com/honda_filter_comparo.html
>
>>
>> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure
>> with a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil
>> filter?
>
>
> Good question!! DOCUMENTED answers anybody?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org>...

> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the only
> oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a '96 Honda
> (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out past the gasket
> onto the road).
>
> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure with
> a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil filter?

OK - here's another one. I'm posting from Google Groups, so I'm not
sure if there have been any responses to my last post.

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

This guy took apart a Fram PH3387A (AC PF47 equivalent) after it had
been used. The only time I took apart a filter (a Fram) was a few
hundred miles, and I had first heard about the materials used by Fram.
I noticed some cardboard fibers had started to separate.

The filter element seems to have flexed a little too much (because
of the lack of stiffness of the cardboard?), and a hole developed
in the media. The anti-drainback valve (which I find to be really
thin in Fram filters) had also folded over such that unfiltered oil
was leaking through a gap.

I remember some years back someone was chiding me for criticizing
the use of cardboard in Fram filters. His point was that cardboard
was used as a gasket material in high pressure military applications
(i.e. submarines). However - I started thinking about it, and it
gaskets need no structural strength (i.e. usually sandwiched between
two metal surfaces). What happens when the cardboard flexes?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org>...

> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the only
> oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a '96 Honda
> (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out past the gasket
> onto the road).
>
> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure with
> a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil filter?

OK - here's another one. I'm posting from Google Groups, so I'm not
sure if there have been any responses to my last post.

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

This guy took apart a Fram PH3387A (AC PF47 equivalent) after it had
been used. The only time I took apart a filter (a Fram) was a few
hundred miles, and I had first heard about the materials used by Fram.
I noticed some cardboard fibers had started to separate.

The filter element seems to have flexed a little too much (because
of the lack of stiffness of the cardboard?), and a hole developed
in the media. The anti-drainback valve (which I find to be really
thin in Fram filters) had also folded over such that unfiltered oil
was leaking through a gap.

I remember some years back someone was chiding me for criticizing
the use of cardboard in Fram filters. His point was that cardboard
was used as a gasket material in high pressure military applications
(i.e. submarines). However - I started thinking about it, and it
gaskets need no structural strength (i.e. usually sandwiched between
two metal surfaces). What happens when the cardboard flexes?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org>...

> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the only
> oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a '96 Honda
> (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out past the gasket
> onto the road).
>
> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure with
> a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil filter?

OK - here's another one. I'm posting from Google Groups, so I'm not
sure if there have been any responses to my last post.

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

This guy took apart a Fram PH3387A (AC PF47 equivalent) after it had
been used. The only time I took apart a filter (a Fram) was a few
hundred miles, and I had first heard about the materials used by Fram.
I noticed some cardboard fibers had started to separate.

The filter element seems to have flexed a little too much (because
of the lack of stiffness of the cardboard?), and a hole developed
in the media. The anti-drainback valve (which I find to be really
thin in Fram filters) had also folded over such that unfiltered oil
was leaking through a gap.

I remember some years back someone was chiding me for criticizing
the use of cardboard in Fram filters. His point was that cardboard
was used as a gasket material in high pressure military applications
(i.e. submarines). However - I started thinking about it, and it
gaskets need no structural strength (i.e. usually sandwiched between
two metal surfaces). What happens when the cardboard flexes?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"E. Meyer" <e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<BC4D102B.4736A%e.meyer0SPAM@ieee.org>...

> In my driving lifetime (39 years behind the wheel and counting), the only
> oil filter failure I have ever experienced was an AC filter on a '96 Honda
> (the bypass failed and the engine forced all the oil out past the gasket
> onto the road).
>
> I'm curious - has anyone here ever actually experienced filter failure with
> a Fram or engine damage attributed to failure of a Fram oil filter?

OK - here's another one. I'm posting from Google Groups, so I'm not
sure if there have been any responses to my last post.

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

This guy took apart a Fram PH3387A (AC PF47 equivalent) after it had
been used. The only time I took apart a filter (a Fram) was a few
hundred miles, and I had first heard about the materials used by Fram.
I noticed some cardboard fibers had started to separate.

The filter element seems to have flexed a little too much (because
of the lack of stiffness of the cardboard?), and a hole developed
in the media. The anti-drainback valve (which I find to be really
thin in Fram filters) had also folded over such that unfiltered oil
was leaking through a gap.

I remember some years back someone was chiding me for criticizing
the use of cardboard in Fram filters. His point was that cardboard
was used as a gasket material in high pressure military applications
(i.e. submarines). However - I started thinking about it, and it
gaskets need no structural strength (i.e. usually sandwiched between
two metal surfaces). What happens when the cardboard flexes?

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:b02g20tk1jtipfk69henq2te8qva4o8lmc@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:22:44 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
> <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

> >$85.33USD (shipping in)
> >Plus UPS brokerage charges of around $30CDN
> >
> >About $155CDN, plus whatever taxes applicable, probably federal only (7%)
>
> Are you sure about that Can$155?

Add about 30% to USD to get CDN.
My bad, call it ~$145CDN, plus 7% federal tax on the whole deal.

Still good for decent rotors, just a long way from US prices.

I've been shopping for aftermarket bits for my 91 EX-R. It's tough up here.

Best deal so far has been a cat-back from www.hottexhaust.com
$563CDN *in my hands* for a Magnaflow 15687.
Local shops tell me "Oh, around $800",....of course, plus taxes, so more
like $920. Same part #, pushed across the counter.

Sorry, but I *work* for my money.

Is the Can$ falling with the US$? Do you
> really mean 7% tax on the shipping charges? It could still work out
> cheaper than the ~$250. you're going to pay for a pair of Acura rotors of
> apparently dubious quality. Have you actually used them for parts?
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:b02g20tk1jtipfk69henq2te8qva4o8lmc@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:22:44 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
> <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

> >$85.33USD (shipping in)
> >Plus UPS brokerage charges of around $30CDN
> >
> >About $155CDN, plus whatever taxes applicable, probably federal only (7%)
>
> Are you sure about that Can$155?

Add about 30% to USD to get CDN.
My bad, call it ~$145CDN, plus 7% federal tax on the whole deal.

Still good for decent rotors, just a long way from US prices.

I've been shopping for aftermarket bits for my 91 EX-R. It's tough up here.

Best deal so far has been a cat-back from www.hottexhaust.com
$563CDN *in my hands* for a Magnaflow 15687.
Local shops tell me "Oh, around $800",....of course, plus taxes, so more
like $920. Same part #, pushed across the counter.

Sorry, but I *work* for my money.

Is the Can$ falling with the US$? Do you
> really mean 7% tax on the shipping charges? It could still work out
> cheaper than the ~$250. you're going to pay for a pair of Acura rotors of
> apparently dubious quality. Have you actually used them for parts?
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:b02g20tk1jtipfk69henq2te8qva4o8lmc@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:22:44 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
> <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

> >$85.33USD (shipping in)
> >Plus UPS brokerage charges of around $30CDN
> >
> >About $155CDN, plus whatever taxes applicable, probably federal only (7%)
>
> Are you sure about that Can$155?

Add about 30% to USD to get CDN.
My bad, call it ~$145CDN, plus 7% federal tax on the whole deal.

Still good for decent rotors, just a long way from US prices.

I've been shopping for aftermarket bits for my 91 EX-R. It's tough up here.

Best deal so far has been a cat-back from www.hottexhaust.com
$563CDN *in my hands* for a Magnaflow 15687.
Local shops tell me "Oh, around $800",....of course, plus taxes, so more
like $920. Same part #, pushed across the counter.

Sorry, but I *work* for my money.

Is the Can$ falling with the US$? Do you
> really mean 7% tax on the shipping charges? It could still work out
> cheaper than the ~$250. you're going to pay for a pair of Acura rotors of
> apparently dubious quality. Have you actually used them for parts?
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote in message
news:b02g20tk1jtipfk69henq2te8qva4o8lmc@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:22:44 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
> <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

> >$85.33USD (shipping in)
> >Plus UPS brokerage charges of around $30CDN
> >
> >About $155CDN, plus whatever taxes applicable, probably federal only (7%)
>
> Are you sure about that Can$155?

Add about 30% to USD to get CDN.
My bad, call it ~$145CDN, plus 7% federal tax on the whole deal.

Still good for decent rotors, just a long way from US prices.

I've been shopping for aftermarket bits for my 91 EX-R. It's tough up here.

Best deal so far has been a cat-back from www.hottexhaust.com
$563CDN *in my hands* for a Magnaflow 15687.
Local shops tell me "Oh, around $800",....of course, plus taxes, so more
like $920. Same part #, pushed across the counter.

Sorry, but I *work* for my money.

Is the Can$ falling with the US$? Do you
> really mean 7% tax on the shipping charges? It could still work out
> cheaper than the ~$250. you're going to pay for a pair of Acura rotors of
> apparently dubious quality. Have you actually used them for parts?
>
> Rgds, George Macdonald
>
> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who,
me??

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> spake unto the
masses in news:b02g20tk1jtipfk69henq2te8qva4o8lmc@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:22:44 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
> <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>$85.33USD (shipping in)
>>Plus UPS brokerage charges of around $30CDN
>>
>>About $155CDN, plus whatever taxes applicable, probably federal only
>>(7%)
>
> Are you sure about that Can$155? Is the Can$ falling with the US$?


$1 US is currently about $1.30 Cdn.

He's optimistic. He'll pay about $163 Cdn. The provincial goons now rough
you up for the provincial tax even on items purchased outside the country.


> Do you really mean 7% tax on the shipping charges?


Yes. The price is figured on item plus shipping plus provincial sales tax,
then the federal GST tax is calculated on that figure. Yes, we are paying
tax on tax. Lovely country, no?


> It could still
> work out cheaper than the ~$250. you're going to pay for a pair of
> Acura rotors of apparently dubious quality.


A pair of OEM rotors for my Integra are $69 each. That's about $160 Cdn,
tax in.

--
TeGGeR®

Re: '03 CR-V Oil filter...new one looks smaller
 

George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> spake unto the
masses in news:b02g20tk1jtipfk69henq2te8qva4o8lmc@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:22:44 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
> <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>$85.33USD (shipping in)
>>Plus UPS brokerage charges of around $30CDN
>>
>>About $155CDN, plus whatever taxes applicable, probably federal only
>>(7%)
>
> Are you sure about that Can$155? Is the Can$ falling with the US$?


$1 US is currently about $1.30 Cdn.

He's optimistic. He'll pay about $163 Cdn. The provincial goons now rough
you up for the provincial tax even on items purchased outside the country.


> Do you really mean 7% tax on the shipping charges?


Yes. The price is figured on item plus shipping plus provincial sales tax,
then the federal GST tax is calculated on that figure. Yes, we are paying
tax on tax. Lovely country, no?


> It could still
> work out cheaper than the ~$250. you're going to pay for a pair of
> Acura rotors of apparently dubious quality.


A pair of OEM rotors for my Integra are $69 each. That's about $160 Cdn,
tax in.

--
TeGGeR®