Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

9DodgeFan wrote:
> ...and in don't believe the first source:
> http://www.leftlanenews.com/400-hp-1...ema-debut.html
>
> Mr. Palmear's shop is on the south edge of Napoleon, OH; it's called
> "Horsepower Sales."

I know you read all about it on the internet, but it's called "bullshit".

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

Tom,

Your post makes no sense at all. Claiming that Japanese imports are
gaining ground because of insolence is lame and indefensible.

American cars suck. End of story. There may be some exceptions but damn
few. If you want to get the most transportation for the money, you must
buy Japanese. It may cost more up front but after years of high repair
bills on American cars, cost of ownership will kill you.

We all know it. You sound like one of the global warming deniers. Just
because you want American cars to be good does not make it real.

Any American car can be made to run 300,000 miles. All it takes is very
deep pockets for the repair bills. I don't have deep pockets. Therefor I
buy Japanese.

Claiming that the Japanese automakers are putting American manufacturers
out of business because we Americans who buy them are all idiots is
again, extremely lame.

I could call you an idiot for buying American. What does that prove.
Nothing.

People vote with their checkbooks. American manufacturers lost the
contest long ago. American auto makers refuse to build a durable
automobile and most Americans are waking up to this fact. Now they want
their businesses supported with our tax money. If you can't compete in
the open market beg to be a government agency that makes cars. If that
happens, and I think that it will, they will have absolutely no reason
to make a better car. They can live on our tax money.

I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.


Tom wrote:
> <cake_and_eat_it_too@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:75a7131d-67d6-434a-b606-821a1ef155bf@x37g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>> Those car makers have also engaged in planned obsolence of their
>> products - delivering cars that only get about 100,000 miles for their
>> life cycle as opposed to the 150,000 or so delivered by the foreign
>> automakers like Nissan, Toyota, and Honda.
>
> you are so full of it that it is coming out of your ears. i know of more
> american made vehicles with over 300,000 miles on them than i do of foreign
> made vehicles with 150,000 miles on them still driving on the roads.
>
>> The American automakers have also been in collusion with the oil
>> companies by not having their products deliver higher miles per
>> gallon. The foreign automakers have done so, and that is a great
>> reason, along with the ones given above, that the American automakers have
>> found themselves in the position they are in now - even after they have
>> found themselves in that position before.
>
> again. you are full of it.
> i laugh at the honda commercials where they claim their sardine can car gets
> "an amazing 21mpg average"
> my full size ford crown victoria gets a lousy average 24mpg, and with the
> cruise set at 60mpg, it consistantly gets over 30mpg on long highway runs
> with 4 adults in it.
>
>
>> There is a car maker in Italy which produces a car that gets 147 miles per
>> gallon.
> again you are full of it.
> the only way a car can get 147 mpg is if the engine is turned off, and it
> is falling down a very tall mountain. .
>
>> And, because of the role that lobbyists have in our society -
>> protecting their employers at the great expense of the American
>> people, the American people have been shafted by the domestic
>> automakers.
>
> again, you are full of it.
> the american people are being shafted by themselves. if they would not buy
> foreign junk, there would not be any problem
>> One further point to be considered is when the domestic car
>> manufacturers started offshoring the manufacturing of their
>> automobiles to 3rd world countries such as Canada and Mexico there was not
>> any reduction in the price of the products.
>
> now you are just plain friggin stupid.
> Mexico and Canada are not "3rd world countries"
>
> So the American automakers have continually dug themselves deeper and
> deeper holes since the early 1970s, when Toyota and Volkswagen started to
> clean their clocks due to their insouciance and insolence.
>
> again, you are an idiot.
>
> the American automakers are failing because of idiots like you who would
> rather buy foreign junk.
>
>
>

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

"Michael" <micoder@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fG1gl.39245$E43.34159@fe01.news.easynews.com. ..
> Tom,
>
>
> I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.
>

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

That is easy, they don't need to beg it is given to them volentarlty.
Apparently you are not aware of the Capital Reinvestment act in Japan, that
returns the taxes on profits, earned US federal corporate tax free, when the
profits are returned to Japan and used as capital. The Japanese
government has been giving money to ALL of their corporations since WWII


"Michael" <micoder@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fG1gl.39245$E43.34159@fe01.news.easynews.com. ..
> Tom,
>
> I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.
>

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent
of their business at one point on this one transmission.

That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
American auto manufacturing.

Finally, most Americans realized they were being totally screwed by
Detroit and moved on the better vehicles.

Detroit simply does not deserve to be saved. They make crap and sell it
on the open market. I wonder why their business tanked.

Now they will only be in business as a government auto manufacturing
industry. Our tax dollars supporting complete incompetence.


SMS wrote:
> QX wrote:
>> My last three vehicles:
>> 1984 Dodge Caravan LE traded at 214,000 miles
>> 1997 Dodge Caravan ES traded at 135,000 miles
>> 2008 Dodge Caravan SXT .
>
> There was a repair place near me that specialized in Dodge Caravans &
> Plymouth Voyagers. The Dan's (the owner) theory was that he needed to
> specialize in vehicles that were exceptionally unreliable, that sold in
> large volumes, and that owners kept for a long time. He had a great run
> until around 2003 or so when everyone started buying the Honda Odyssey
> and Toyota Sienna. Now he's moved to a smaller location, and he doesn't
> limit his repairs to those two models as there just aren't enough of
> them around anymore.

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:50:56 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>That is easy, they don't need to beg it is given to them volentarlty.
>Apparently you are not aware of the Capital Reinvestment act in Japan, that
>returns the taxes on profits, earned US federal corporate tax free, when the
>profits are returned to Japan and used as capital. The Japanese
>government has been giving money to ALL of their corporations since WWII
>
>
snip
>

If what you say is a fact then it seems a remarkably effective
strategy, perhaps others should take note and emulate.

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.


"Michael" <micoder@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:eL5gl.33420$8E1.846@fe11.news.easynews.com...
> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent of
> their business at one point on this one transmission.
>
> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
> American auto manufacturing.

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

In article <lrmdnSZiKtshWhzUnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

> That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.

And the Honda transmissions.

So let's see: Toyota screws up once. Honda screws up once.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler have developed screwing up to an institutional
art. Virtually everything they have done for 30 years has been a major
screw-up, from the top down.

Yeah. Toyota screwed up once. OK.

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:14:01 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.
>
>
>"Michael" <micoder@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:eL5gl.33420$8E1.846@fe11.news.easynews.com.. .
>> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
>> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent of
>> their business at one point on this one transmission.
>>
>> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
>> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
>> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
>> American auto manufacturing.
>
As a former Toyota service manager I'd say it was the extended oil
drains that did it.

If the oil was changed every 5000Km (3000 miles) there would be NO
sludge. Same as with the Chryco engines.

Unlike the Chryco trannies where they had electrical/electronic
gremlins.

Even then, if the fluid was changed regularly and with the RIGHT
fluid, and the gremlins did not show up, the trannies asted a LOT
longer than those that were not serviced.

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-1564CD.12065629012009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
> In article <lrmdnSZiKtshWhzUnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@ptd.net>,
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:
>
>> That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.
>
> And the Honda transmissions.
>
> So let's see: Toyota screws up once. Honda screws up once.
>
> GM, Ford, and Chrysler have developed screwing up to an
> institutional
> art. Virtually everything they have done for 30 years has been a
> major
> screw-up, from the top down.
>
> Yeah. Toyota screwed up once. OK.

Please. This is total crap. Toyota screws up all the time. Back in
2007 Toyota led the industry in recalls. The new Turdra is one huge
screw up - broken camshafts, defective transmissions, pick-up boxes so
weak you cannot leave the tailgate open. Or my SO's RAV4 - the worst
crusie control I have ever used. It is unusable at certain speeds. How
about all the ball joint failures on trucks from a coupkle of years
back - these fauilures killed people. How about the rotten egg
smelling catalytic converters? How about the Corollas with failing
rear suspensions. The list goes on. For some unknown reason, Toyota
seems to get a free ride when they build crap. And there is the whole
Toyota culture when it comes to problems - deny, lie, deny...repeat as
necessary.

Ed

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

On Jan 28, 6:20 pm, Michael <mico...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent
> of their business at one point on this one transmission.
>
> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
> American auto manufacturing.
>
> Finally, most Americans realized they were being totally screwed by
> Detroit and moved on the better vehicles.
>
> Detroit simply does not deserve to be saved. They make crap and sell it
> on the open market. I wonder why their business tanked.
>
> Now they will only be in business as a government auto manufacturing
> industry. Our tax dollars supporting complete incompetence.

Toyota doesn't get it right every time, either.

I have had two Fords that were really good. And I know others with
American cars that were good, too.

On the other hand, a lot of American and foreign cars really sucked,
too.

Jeff

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

YEP around 2% on AVERAGE just as is the case with all other manufactured
products


"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dba7cebb-590f-476e-ac9a-0ac904e137b5@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 6:20 pm, Michael <mico...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent
> of their business at one point on this one transmission.
>
> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
> American auto manufacturing.
>
> Finally, most Americans realized they were being totally screwed by
> Detroit and moved on the better vehicles.
>
> Detroit simply does not deserve to be saved. They make crap and sell it
> on the open market. I wonder why their business tanked.
>
> Now they will only be in business as a government auto manufacturing
> industry. Our tax dollars supporting complete incompetence.

Toyota doesn't get it right every time, either.

I have had two Fords that were really good. And I know others with
American cars that were good, too.

On the other hand, a lot of American and foreign cars really sucked,
too.

Jeff

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:36:14 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>news:elmop-1564CD.12065629012009@mara100-84.onlink.net...
>> In article <lrmdnSZiKtshWhzUnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@ptd.net>,
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:
>>
>>> That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.
>>
>> And the Honda transmissions.
>>
>> So let's see: Toyota screws up once. Honda screws up once.
>>
>> GM, Ford, and Chrysler have developed screwing up to an
>> institutional
>> art. Virtually everything they have done for 30 years has been a
>> major
>> screw-up, from the top down.
>>
>> Yeah. Toyota screwed up once. OK.
>
>Please. This is total crap. Toyota screws up all the time. Back in
>2007 Toyota led the industry in recalls. The new Turdra is one huge
>screw up - broken camshafts, defective transmissions, pick-up boxes so
>weak you cannot leave the tailgate open. Or my SO's RAV4 - the worst
>crusie control I have ever used. It is unusable at certain speeds.

At what speeds? Cruise is NOT to be used in urban areas at 30 mph.

> How
>about all the ball joint failures on trucks from a coupkle of years
>back - these fauilures killed people.
And how many ball joints did my Pontiac TransSport go through?
I replaced an average of better than one per year over the 6 years I
owned that heap.


How about the rotten egg
>smelling catalytic converters?

High sulphur gasoline is not a conveerter problem. A rich mixture can
contribute to it, but the main problem is BAD GAS. ANd the problem OST
DEFINITELY was not limited to Toyota.

> How about the Corollas with failing
>rear suspensions.

I think you mean the tercels in 1981?
EVERYBODY had rust problems back then. ANd as soon as they realized
there was a problem (which was only a problem in the "rust belt" with
high road salt use) they recalled the affected vehicles for testing
and remediation - or replacement if rust was evident.

I did several hundred of them.


>The list goes on. For some unknown reason, Toyota
>seems to get a free ride when they build crap. And there is the whole
>Toyota culture when it comes to problems - deny, lie, deny...repeat as
>necessary.
>
>Ed
>
GM putting 6 cyl trannys in 8 cyl cars
GM putting 6 cyl tranny parts in 8 cyl trannys.
The GM 3.8 V6 intake problems.
The GM 2.8/3.1 intake problems.
The GM 307 camshaft problems.
The GM 3.4 liter "time bomb"
The Vega
These are just a few LONG TERM problems GM got away with.

When Toyota screws up they fix it in relatively short order.

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:40:56 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>YEP around 2% on AVERAGE just as is the case with all other manufactured
>products
>

Actually 2% is very high for Toyota.

>
>"Jeff" <jeff.utz@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:dba7cebb-590f-476e-ac9a-0ac904e137b5@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>On Jan 28, 6:20 pm, Michael <mico...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
>> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent
>> of their business at one point on this one transmission.
>>
>> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
>> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
>> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
>> American auto manufacturing.
>>
>> Finally, most Americans realized they were being totally screwed by
>> Detroit and moved on the better vehicles.
>>
>> Detroit simply does not deserve to be saved. They make crap and sell it
>> on the open market. I wonder why their business tanked.
>>
>> Now they will only be in business as a government auto manufacturing
>> industry. Our tax dollars supporting complete incompetence.
>
>Toyota doesn't get it right every time, either.
>
>I have had two Fords that were really good. And I know others with
>American cars that were good, too.
>
>On the other hand, a lot of American and foreign cars really sucked,
>too.
>
>Jeff
>

Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??
 

"Michael" <micoder@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fG1gl.39245$E43.34159@fe01.news.easynews.com. ..
> I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.

Because they haven't needed to beg - the Japanese goverment happily
subsidizes them. For example, former Toyota exec Jim Press let it slip that
the Japanese government subsidized the development of the electric batteries
used in the Prius.

Derek