Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:
:: Good for you. I hope your luck continues. Nobody should have two
:: blowouts on the freeway in six months, driving a new car. Not
:: even the people in this thread who have been frankly insulting.

Hmmm.....and just how much did happen to the car, when you had the flats?
Was it still controlable? I've seen both C900 and 9000 be punctured at
around 130-140 km/h (85 mph). The driver had one hand up in the air and the
other on top of the steeringwheel - no drama at all.....

:: No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
:: the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and

Yeah right!

Cheers!

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:
:: Good for you. I hope your luck continues. Nobody should have two
:: blowouts on the freeway in six months, driving a new car. Not
:: even the people in this thread who have been frankly insulting.

Hmmm.....and just how much did happen to the car, when you had the flats?
Was it still controlable? I've seen both C900 and 9000 be punctured at
around 130-140 km/h (85 mph). The driver had one hand up in the air and the
other on top of the steeringwheel - no drama at all.....

:: No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
:: the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and

Yeah right!

Cheers!

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <HKt4H8.5AI@approve.se>, hoh@invalid.invalid says...
> In article <MPG.19c3c0d51e46b39f989db8@news.sonic.net>,
> milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > If you own a Saab, check into your tire situation.
>
> This statement should be:
>
> If you own a car, check into your tire situation.
>
> It is *your* own responsibility to make sure that your tires/tyres
> are in a safe state. You can not blame the manufacturer of the car
> for everything that goes wrong. It is not always "the fault of
> someone else" even if that seems to be a common mentality in the
> US at the moment.

This is a very defensive response. If it were in a political
newsgroup, I'd say it was typical defensive Libertarian mind-
reading.

I do check my car and my tires. I *do* maintain my car. I *don't*
abuse my car, nor have I hit potholes or anything else on the
road. It is presumptuous of you to think I don't -- and, I might
add, a bit "convenient" for you to just assume I have.

*****

I should not have had TWO FREEWAY BLOWOUTS in six months driving
my new Saab under normal conditions. Period.

Saab and Michelin should have handled their contact with me
differently than they did -- which was to pretty much deny their
own Warrantees and to charge me too much for their tardy service.

*****

A Saab is not a political party or a football team:
Partisanship is irrelevant. I suggest that you take your auto
purchase as seriously as I do: Things like this should not have
happened to me, and they should not happen to you, either.


> > Based on my quick, brutal experiences, I will never do business
> > with either company ever again.
>
> Based on your social skills you have shown here, I guess that you
> will not be missed by them.

Not everything about Saabs are perfect. Problems occur. They
should be reported in newsgroups like this and discussed
intelligently. People are not "morons," nor do they "lack social
skills" simply because they report those problems here.

.... and based on my problems, Saab will indeed miss customers
like me. American buyers are a finicky lot. GM and Ford are
struggling this year because of indescretions of past years.
Chrysler has now lost third place in Sales to Toyota partly
because Toyota did things right and Chrysler had their own
quality and customer relations issues.

Saab sales in the United States have not held up well over the
last several years, partly because of build quality and customer
relations issues like this. While Saab has improved their cars
and their customer care recently, they still have a ways to go.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

In article <HKt4H8.5AI@approve.se>, hoh@invalid.invalid says...
> In article <MPG.19c3c0d51e46b39f989db8@news.sonic.net>,
> milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > If you own a Saab, check into your tire situation.
>
> This statement should be:
>
> If you own a car, check into your tire situation.
>
> It is *your* own responsibility to make sure that your tires/tyres
> are in a safe state. You can not blame the manufacturer of the car
> for everything that goes wrong. It is not always "the fault of
> someone else" even if that seems to be a common mentality in the
> US at the moment.

This is a very defensive response. If it were in a political
newsgroup, I'd say it was typical defensive Libertarian mind-
reading.

I do check my car and my tires. I *do* maintain my car. I *don't*
abuse my car, nor have I hit potholes or anything else on the
road. It is presumptuous of you to think I don't -- and, I might
add, a bit "convenient" for you to just assume I have.

*****

I should not have had TWO FREEWAY BLOWOUTS in six months driving
my new Saab under normal conditions. Period.

Saab and Michelin should have handled their contact with me
differently than they did -- which was to pretty much deny their
own Warrantees and to charge me too much for their tardy service.

*****

A Saab is not a political party or a football team:
Partisanship is irrelevant. I suggest that you take your auto
purchase as seriously as I do: Things like this should not have
happened to me, and they should not happen to you, either.


> > Based on my quick, brutal experiences, I will never do business
> > with either company ever again.
>
> Based on your social skills you have shown here, I guess that you
> will not be missed by them.

Not everything about Saabs are perfect. Problems occur. They
should be reported in newsgroups like this and discussed
intelligently. People are not "morons," nor do they "lack social
skills" simply because they report those problems here.

.... and based on my problems, Saab will indeed miss customers
like me. American buyers are a finicky lot. GM and Ford are
struggling this year because of indescretions of past years.
Chrysler has now lost third place in Sales to Toyota partly
because Toyota did things right and Chrysler had their own
quality and customer relations issues.

Saab sales in the United States have not held up well over the
last several years, partly because of build quality and customer
relations issues like this. While Saab has improved their cars
and their customer care recently, they still have a ways to go.


mb

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:

> In article <HKt4H8.5AI@approve.se>, hoh@invalid.invalid says...
>
>>In article <MPG.19c3c0d51e46b39f989db8@news.sonic.net>,
>>milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If you own a Saab, check into your tire situation.
>>
>>This statement should be:
>>
>> If you own a car, check into your tire situation.
>>
>>It is *your* own responsibility to make sure that your tires/tyres
>>are in a safe state. You can not blame the manufacturer of the car
>>for everything that goes wrong. It is not always "the fault of
>>someone else" even if that seems to be a common mentality in the
>>US at the moment.
>
>
> This is a very defensive response. If it were in a political
> newsgroup, I'd say it was typical defensive Libertarian mind-
> reading.
>
> I do check my car and my tires. I *do* maintain my car. I *don't*
> abuse my car, nor have I hit potholes or anything else on the
> road. It is presumptuous of you to think I don't -- and, I might
> add, a bit "convenient" for you to just assume I have.
>
> *****
>
> I should not have had TWO FREEWAY BLOWOUTS in six months driving
> my new Saab under normal conditions. Period.
>
> Saab and Michelin should have handled their contact with me
> differently than they did -- which was to pretty much deny their
> own Warrantees and to charge me too much for their tardy service.
>
> *****
>
> A Saab is not a political party or a football team:
> Partisanship is irrelevant. I suggest that you take your auto
> purchase as seriously as I do: Things like this should not have
> happened to me, and they should not happen to you, either.
>
>
>
>>>Based on my quick, brutal experiences, I will never do business
>>>with either company ever again.
>>
>>Based on your social skills you have shown here, I guess that you
>>will not be missed by them.
>
>
> Not everything about Saabs are perfect. Problems occur. They
> should be reported in newsgroups like this and discussed
> intelligently. People are not "morons," nor do they "lack social
> skills" simply because they report those problems here.
>
> ... and based on my problems, Saab will indeed miss customers
> like me. American buyers are a finicky lot. GM and Ford are
> struggling this year because of indescretions of past years.
> Chrysler has now lost third place in Sales to Toyota partly
> because Toyota did things right and Chrysler had their own
> quality and customer relations issues.
>
> Saab sales in the United States have not held up well over the
> last several years, partly because of build quality and customer
> relations issues like this. While Saab has improved their cars
> and their customer care recently, they still have a ways to go.
>
>
> mb

Hi,
May I ask a question? How come did you buy the Saab then?
So you can cross post your rant and drag on and on? Thanks for your time
and let's move onto different thread.
Tony

>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

milt brewster wrote:

> In article <HKt4H8.5AI@approve.se>, hoh@invalid.invalid says...
>
>>In article <MPG.19c3c0d51e46b39f989db8@news.sonic.net>,
>>milt brewster <milt73@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If you own a Saab, check into your tire situation.
>>
>>This statement should be:
>>
>> If you own a car, check into your tire situation.
>>
>>It is *your* own responsibility to make sure that your tires/tyres
>>are in a safe state. You can not blame the manufacturer of the car
>>for everything that goes wrong. It is not always "the fault of
>>someone else" even if that seems to be a common mentality in the
>>US at the moment.
>
>
> This is a very defensive response. If it were in a political
> newsgroup, I'd say it was typical defensive Libertarian mind-
> reading.
>
> I do check my car and my tires. I *do* maintain my car. I *don't*
> abuse my car, nor have I hit potholes or anything else on the
> road. It is presumptuous of you to think I don't -- and, I might
> add, a bit "convenient" for you to just assume I have.
>
> *****
>
> I should not have had TWO FREEWAY BLOWOUTS in six months driving
> my new Saab under normal conditions. Period.
>
> Saab and Michelin should have handled their contact with me
> differently than they did -- which was to pretty much deny their
> own Warrantees and to charge me too much for their tardy service.
>
> *****
>
> A Saab is not a political party or a football team:
> Partisanship is irrelevant. I suggest that you take your auto
> purchase as seriously as I do: Things like this should not have
> happened to me, and they should not happen to you, either.
>
>
>
>>>Based on my quick, brutal experiences, I will never do business
>>>with either company ever again.
>>
>>Based on your social skills you have shown here, I guess that you
>>will not be missed by them.
>
>
> Not everything about Saabs are perfect. Problems occur. They
> should be reported in newsgroups like this and discussed
> intelligently. People are not "morons," nor do they "lack social
> skills" simply because they report those problems here.
>
> ... and based on my problems, Saab will indeed miss customers
> like me. American buyers are a finicky lot. GM and Ford are
> struggling this year because of indescretions of past years.
> Chrysler has now lost third place in Sales to Toyota partly
> because Toyota did things right and Chrysler had their own
> quality and customer relations issues.
>
> Saab sales in the United States have not held up well over the
> last several years, partly because of build quality and customer
> relations issues like this. While Saab has improved their cars
> and their customer care recently, they still have a ways to go.
>
>
> mb

Hi,
May I ask a question? How come did you buy the Saab then?
So you can cross post your rant and drag on and on? Thanks for your time
and let's move onto different thread.
Tony

>

Re: Saab Complaint
 

in article 3f5a746d$0$97237$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk, Henrik B. at
saab@tdcadsl_nospam_.dk wrote on 07/09/2003 00:57:

> :: No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
> :: the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and
>
> Yeah right!

Safety? He he :)

According to http://www.euroncap.com/, both the Toyota Corolla and the Honda
Civic did very well actually. Both got 4 stars. Other Honda and Toyota
models also got 4 stars.

.... Oh, the both the Saab 9-3 and the 9-5 got 5 stars.

Paul

Re: Saab Complaint
 

in article 3f5a746d$0$97237$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk, Henrik B. at
saab@tdcadsl_nospam_.dk wrote on 07/09/2003 00:57:

> :: No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
> :: the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and
>
> Yeah right!

Safety? He he :)

According to http://www.euroncap.com/, both the Toyota Corolla and the Honda
Civic did very well actually. Both got 4 stars. Other Honda and Toyota
models also got 4 stars.

.... Oh, the both the Saab 9-3 and the 9-5 got 5 stars.

Paul

Re: Saab Complaint
 

>
> I should not have had TWO FREEWAY BLOWOUTS in six months driving
> my new Saab under normal conditions. Period.
>
> Saab and Michelin should have handled their contact with me
> differently than they did -- which was to pretty much deny their
> own Warrantees and to charge me too much for their tardy service.
>
> *****
>
> A Saab is not a political party or a football team:
> Partisanship is irrelevant. I suggest that you take your auto
> purchase as seriously as I do: Things like this should not have
> happened to me, and they should not happen to you, either.
>
>
>

YOu're right, you should not have had blowouts. You were due some
decent customer service. The tires I have at Wal-Mart have 80K
warrantees with maintenance...if I ran over a nail (which I did) they
replace it without telling me it was my fault. You'd figure a high
priced outfit like Saab would do the same.


I always liked Saabs, never having driven one, but having seen them on
the road in my native NE all the time. But I realize they are quirky,
expensive cars.

I can't understand all the hostility and snippiness here. Maybe they
are defensive b/c they realize they paid 2x the price for something
that is less reliable than a Toyota Camry?

Keep bitching to you Saab place. There must be something wrong with
the alignment.

$245 is ridiculous for a tire. I had BF Goodrich's installed on my
Toyota at Wal-mart (80 K miles warantee) for about $60 each including
hazard, installation, etc. They seem like great tires. It's been 50K
miles and they have plenty of tread left on them. Maybe not up to the
"standards" of the stuffy people that seem to be on this Saab site,
but I like them nonetheless. Also consider getting touring instead of
"sport" tires. They are made more for comfort and long life. Maybe
"sport" tires blowout easier? I don't know.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

>
> I should not have had TWO FREEWAY BLOWOUTS in six months driving
> my new Saab under normal conditions. Period.
>
> Saab and Michelin should have handled their contact with me
> differently than they did -- which was to pretty much deny their
> own Warrantees and to charge me too much for their tardy service.
>
> *****
>
> A Saab is not a political party or a football team:
> Partisanship is irrelevant. I suggest that you take your auto
> purchase as seriously as I do: Things like this should not have
> happened to me, and they should not happen to you, either.
>
>
>

YOu're right, you should not have had blowouts. You were due some
decent customer service. The tires I have at Wal-Mart have 80K
warrantees with maintenance...if I ran over a nail (which I did) they
replace it without telling me it was my fault. You'd figure a high
priced outfit like Saab would do the same.


I always liked Saabs, never having driven one, but having seen them on
the road in my native NE all the time. But I realize they are quirky,
expensive cars.

I can't understand all the hostility and snippiness here. Maybe they
are defensive b/c they realize they paid 2x the price for something
that is less reliable than a Toyota Camry?

Keep bitching to you Saab place. There must be something wrong with
the alignment.

$245 is ridiculous for a tire. I had BF Goodrich's installed on my
Toyota at Wal-mart (80 K miles warantee) for about $60 each including
hazard, installation, etc. They seem like great tires. It's been 50K
miles and they have plenty of tread left on them. Maybe not up to the
"standards" of the stuffy people that seem to be on this Saab site,
but I like them nonetheless. Also consider getting touring instead of
"sport" tires. They are made more for comfort and long life. Maybe
"sport" tires blowout easier? I don't know.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

mi
>
> When I had my FIRST blowout, I was very friendly and businesslike
> at the Dealer. If anything, I was too friendly and compliant.
>
> My dealer knew I had had an emergency. My car had to be towed to
> their garage. The dealer was curt and summarily refused to
> consider the tire issue, or contacting the tire manufacturer.
> They didn't perform a computer recall check on my car, which I
> now know is mandatory for them.
>
> The dealer (B&B Saab in San Jose, CA) charged me $275 to install
> an original equipment replacement Michelin tire, and they took a
> day and a half. They also changed the oil in my car at the same
> time, for another $85.
>
>
> mb
That's another problem with esoteric cars. The dealer density is low,
so another Saab dealer is 100 miles away or so.

$275 for a tire is robbery so is the oil change. How many quarts does
it take? 20? I change my own oil for $10. It makes me feel good, as
it's one of the only car type things I can do.

My toyota has 135K miles on it, 8 years old, and HAS NEVER HAD A MAJOR
PROBLEM. It gets 35mpg around town, still. There are other Toyotas
with the same story. No transmission problems, no engine problems, no
defects, recalls, nothing. No engine fires (Ford) or transmissions
wearing out after 65K (Ford again).

I agree, you should sell your Saab. The maintenance and replacement
parts are probably lower on a standard honda or toyota so I'd go for
one of those. There are more dealers per area so you will have a
choice. The parts are cheaper as they come from Japan and not high
cost Sweden.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

mi
>
> When I had my FIRST blowout, I was very friendly and businesslike
> at the Dealer. If anything, I was too friendly and compliant.
>
> My dealer knew I had had an emergency. My car had to be towed to
> their garage. The dealer was curt and summarily refused to
> consider the tire issue, or contacting the tire manufacturer.
> They didn't perform a computer recall check on my car, which I
> now know is mandatory for them.
>
> The dealer (B&B Saab in San Jose, CA) charged me $275 to install
> an original equipment replacement Michelin tire, and they took a
> day and a half. They also changed the oil in my car at the same
> time, for another $85.
>
>
> mb
That's another problem with esoteric cars. The dealer density is low,
so another Saab dealer is 100 miles away or so.

$275 for a tire is robbery so is the oil change. How many quarts does
it take? 20? I change my own oil for $10. It makes me feel good, as
it's one of the only car type things I can do.

My toyota has 135K miles on it, 8 years old, and HAS NEVER HAD A MAJOR
PROBLEM. It gets 35mpg around town, still. There are other Toyotas
with the same story. No transmission problems, no engine problems, no
defects, recalls, nothing. No engine fires (Ford) or transmissions
wearing out after 65K (Ford again).

I agree, you should sell your Saab. The maintenance and replacement
parts are probably lower on a standard honda or toyota so I'd go for
one of those. There are more dealers per area so you will have a
choice. The parts are cheaper as they come from Japan and not high
cost Sweden.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

Paul Halliday <pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<BB80BF85.958B%pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk>...
> in article 3f5a746d$0$97237$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk, Henrik B. at
> saab@tdcadsl_nospam_.dk wrote on 07/09/2003 00:57:
>
> > :: No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
> > :: the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and
> >
> > Yeah right!
>
> Safety? He he :)
>
> According to http://www.euroncap.com/, both the Toyota Corolla and the Honda
> Civic did very well actually. Both got 4 stars. Other Honda and Toyota
> models also got 4 stars.
>
> ... Oh, the both the Saab 9-3 and the 9-5 got 5 stars.
>
> Paul

That's misleading though. Due to Toyota and Honda high reliability
you are less likely to lose control of your car (due to blowouts and
such) as you are (see OP's blowouts) in a SAAB. I'd rather drive a
car with 4 stars that never gets in accidents than a 5 star safety car
that has tire blowouts and probably engine failures and god knows what
else.

Those 5 starts won't due you much good when the transmission seizes on
you and launches you headlong into a semi.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

Paul Halliday <pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<BB80BF85.958B%pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk>...
> in article 3f5a746d$0$97237$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk, Henrik B. at
> saab@tdcadsl_nospam_.dk wrote on 07/09/2003 00:57:
>
> > :: No, and that's my point here. The Honda Civic sells for 60% of
> > :: the cost of a 9-3 Saab, yet the Civic has a better safety and
> >
> > Yeah right!
>
> Safety? He he :)
>
> According to http://www.euroncap.com/, both the Toyota Corolla and the Honda
> Civic did very well actually. Both got 4 stars. Other Honda and Toyota
> models also got 4 stars.
>
> ... Oh, the both the Saab 9-3 and the 9-5 got 5 stars.
>
> Paul

That's misleading though. Due to Toyota and Honda high reliability
you are less likely to lose control of your car (due to blowouts and
such) as you are (see OP's blowouts) in a SAAB. I'd rather drive a
car with 4 stars that never gets in accidents than a 5 star safety car
that has tire blowouts and probably engine failures and god knows what
else.

Those 5 starts won't due you much good when the transmission seizes on
you and launches you headlong into a semi.

Re: Saab Complaint
 

in article 68a6629.0309070455.1090e75a@posting.google.com, brianb at
bri1600bv@hotmail.com wrote on 07/09/2003 13:55:

<snip>EuroNCAP</snip>
.... And left cross-posted to alt.autos.honda and alt.autos.toyota

> Those 5 stars won't do you much good when the transmission seizes on
> you and launches you headlong into a semi.

( ^ Spelling and grammar corrected)

A semi what? Those 5 stars make sure both myself and the other people (such
as pedestrians) remain alive, rather than "4 star perhaps dead". Read the
detail behind the summary tables.

Since GM took over Saab, it has been a long climb for Saab to return to the
same standards of safety they were revered for ten years ago. Saab today
makes a good car and a much better car than it did at the launch of the 9-3
and 9-5 model ranges. Look at the EuroNCAP results for Saabs a couple of
years ago (such as the 2000 model) - that tells a different story.

This thread is discussing the 2000 model 9-3, which is not the same car as
Saab produce today. The owner of that car is having a grumble about the
standard and quality of tyres fitted three years ago.

If he's thinking of changing to another car because he feels unsafe in his
2000 model, then he should take a long, hard look at those kinds of
statistics. The other manufacturers that he was looking at, namely Toyota
and Honda, do indeed fair much better than the 2000 model Saab 9-3, but do
not fair as well as the current Saab range.

Paul