Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:18:34 -0500, pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com>
wrote:

>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.
>
>Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never,
>absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to
>immediately sell it for a profit somehow.
>
>Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable
>Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception
>due to the price/performance combination until recently.
>
>I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it
>spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty
>repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration.
>His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several
>Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to
>stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's.
>
>Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a
>neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at
>37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since.
>
>Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say
>about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down
>so often.
>
>Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they
>have no competition in that area.
>
>Pat
I was only bitching about the styling. I have not found the
mechanical quality to be a problem. We buy lots of domestics at work
and I really don't see them going in for repairs very often, just
regular prev maintenance. We've got a 95 Impala that was mine when it
was new and is now assigned to someone else. The only things that
ever went wrong with it in 12 years and 130,000 miles were two windows
came off the tracks during it's first year. And the cheap plastic
door panels need big washers now to hold them to the door. Gets 24
mpg on the highway with a big v-8.

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

On Thu, 03 May 2007 07:18:34 -0500, pws <pwshelton@austin.rr.com>
wrote:

>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.
>
>Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never,
>absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to
>immediately sell it for a profit somehow.
>
>Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable
>Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception
>due to the price/performance combination until recently.
>
>I saw a person buy a new Corvette, drive it for one year with it
>spending one entire month of that year in the shop getting warranty
>repairs, before he finally sold it in frustration.
>His comment was, "It was fun, when it worked". He now owns several
>Japanese cars with a total cost of less than the Vette and they seem to
>stay in his garage a lot more often than his mechanic's.
>
>Chevy - can't even get their flagship sports car correct. Watched a
>neighbor's 2001 Impala go in for many repairs before throwing a rod at
>37,000 miles. Replaced with a Toyota, no problems since.
>
>Ford - Have owned two, which is two too many. The only good thing to say
>about them is that I have made money off of Ford, since they break down
>so often.
>
>Pontiac - the absolute masters of producing consistently ugly cars, they
>have no competition in that area.
>
>Pat
I was only bitching about the styling. I have not found the
mechanical quality to be a problem. We buy lots of domestics at work
and I really don't see them going in for repairs very often, just
regular prev maintenance. We've got a 95 Impala that was mine when it
was new and is now assigned to someone else. The only things that
ever went wrong with it in 12 years and 130,000 miles were two windows
came off the tracks during it's first year. And the cheap plastic
door panels need big washers now to hold them to the door. Gets 24
mpg on the highway with a big v-8.

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
"modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .


On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>
>
>
>
>
> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>
> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>
> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>
> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
> >Camry.
>
> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
> >disproportionately on our new stuff."
>
> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
> >through March over a year earlier.
>
> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
> >the market leader in South America.
>
> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>
> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
> most of the Chevy's.
>
> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
"modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .


On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>
>
>
>
>
> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>
> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>
> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>
> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
> >Camry.
>
> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
> >disproportionately on our new stuff."
>
> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
> >through March over a year earlier.
>
> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
> >the market leader in South America.
>
> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>
> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
> most of the Chevy's.
>
> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

bigjim@backpacker.com wrote:
> I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
> outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
> The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
> "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
> failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
> hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
> Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
> will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .

apart from the repetitious xenophobia, this sounds like homer simpson
designing the "canyonero".


>
>
> On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>>> Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>>> Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
>>> that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
>>> said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
>>> and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
>>> face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
>>> those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
>>> result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>>> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
>>> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
>>> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
>>> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
>>> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
>>> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>>> Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
>>> the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
>>> said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
>>> features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
>>> Camry.
>>> At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
>>> abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
>>> months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
>>> Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
>>> weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
>>> disproportionately on our new stuff."
>>> But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
>>> ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
>>> through March over a year earlier.
>>> Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
>>> Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
>>> problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
>>> took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
>>> was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
>>> the market leader in South America.
>>> Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
>>> the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
>>> http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
>>> declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
>>> he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
>> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

bigjim@backpacker.com wrote:
> I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
> outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
> The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
> "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
> failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
> hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
> Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
> will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .

apart from the repetitious xenophobia, this sounds like homer simpson
designing the "canyonero".


>
>
> On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>>> Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>>> Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
>>> that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
>>> said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
>>> and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
>>> face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
>>> those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
>>> result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>>> .the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
>>> Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
>>> print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
>>> on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
>>> commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
>>> Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>>> Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
>>> the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
>>> said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
>>> features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
>>> Camry.
>>> At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
>>> abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
>>> months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
>>> Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
>>> weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
>>> disproportionately on our new stuff."
>>> But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
>>> ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
>>> through March over a year earlier.
>>> Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
>>> Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
>>> problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
>>> took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
>>> was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
>>> the market leader in South America.
>>> Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
>>> the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
>>> http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
>>> declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
>>> he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
>> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite
nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company car
every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. Around
35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder and the
ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you could feel the
transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles,
we can't wait to get rid of it.

<bigjim@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:1178363902.949444.319780@n76g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
> outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
> The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
> "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
> failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
> hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
> Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
> will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .
>
>
> On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>>
>> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
>> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
>> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
>> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
>> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
>> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
>> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>>
>> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
>> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
>> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
>> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
>> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
>> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>>
>> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
>> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
>> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
>> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
>> >Camry.
>>
>> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
>> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
>> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
>> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
>> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
>> >disproportionately on our new stuff."
>>
>> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
>> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
>> >through March over a year earlier.
>>
>> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
>> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
>> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
>> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
>> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
>> >the market leader in South America.
>>
>> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
>> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
>> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
>> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
>> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
>> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.-
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite
nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company car
every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so. Around
35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder and the
ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you could feel the
transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at around 60K miles,
we can't wait to get rid of it.

<bigjim@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:1178363902.949444.319780@n76g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>I agree. I stopped to look at the Sport Trac. Looks fone from
> outside, decent price/features etc. The interior was just AWFUL!!!
> The door handles are awkward and unintuitive. Dash is trying to be
> "modern german spartan design" but is ugly. Ford wonders why they are
> failing? Instead of giving money to homosexual groups they should
> hire real designers and pay some average people for design ideas.
> Quality also needs to be addressed but the big problem is UGLY. Who
> will buy the Edge- urban homosexuals seem to be the target .
>
>
> On May 3, 12:50 am, Ashton Crusher <d...@moore.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:40:06 +0200 (CEST), Nomen Nescio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>> >Wall St Journal - May 1, 2007
>>
>> >Barry Engle, Ford's new North American marketing chief, acknowledged
>> >that companies usually avoid giving free advertising to rivals. But he
>> >said the challenge ads are meant to "provoke people to try our products
>> >and making sure we are on the list." Mr. Engle also said Ford needs to
>> >face the fact that consumers are pitting the company's vehicles against
>> >those from Honda Motor Co. and Toyota when choosing what to buy. As a
>> >result, he aimed at giving Ford's marketing a more confident tone.
>>
>> >.the Ford Challenge advertising campaign...asks consumers to compare
>> >Ford vehicles to their toughest competitors. The first television,
>> >print and online ads, launched at the beginning of this year, focused
>> >on the Ford Fusion midsize sedanhttp://doiop.com/Fusion- The
>> >commercials showed consumers comparing the Fusion favorably against a
>> >Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord, both of which were mentioned by name.
>>
>> >Honda spokesman Sage Marie said the Ford ad serves as validation that
>> >the Accord is a benchmark for the segment. Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong
>> >said Ford wasn't making an "apples to apples" comparison because the ad
>> >features an all-wheel-drive Fusion compared with a front-wheel-drive
>> >Camry.
>>
>> >At first, the Fusion got what Ford insiders call the "launch and
>> >abandon" treatment, as ads for the car largely disappeared several
>> >months after the vehicle hit showrooms after its October 2005 launch.
>> >Mr. Engle found that at the end of 2006, two-thirds of consumers
>> >weren't aware the Fusion existed. "In the past, we gravitated
>> >disproportionately on our new stuff."
>>
>> >But after Ford renewed its push on the Fusion with the Ford Challenge
>> >ads this year, Fusion sales accelerated, up by almost 33% in 2007
>> >through March over a year earlier.
>>
>> >Engle is using some of the lessons he learned as president of Ford
>> >Brazil. Five years ago, Ford faced product and marketing-strategy
>> >problems there similar to those it faces now in the U.S. When Mr. Engle
>> >took over the marketing position in North America, he realized there
>> >was a lot more the marketing team could do with the Fusion, which was
>> >the market leader in South America.
>>
>> >Mr. Engle's next high-profile project will be this summer's relaunch of
>> >the sedan formerly known as the Ford Five Hundred
>> >http://doiop.com/Ford_500which will be renamed the Taurus. Mr. Engle
>> >declined to discuss the campaign details because it was too early, but
>> >he did say the Five Hundred was another great product that suffered
>> >from lack of awareness and appreciation.
>>
>> I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
>> suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
>> the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
>> most of the Chevy's.
>>
>> By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
>> car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
>> choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
>> Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
>> the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
>> straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
>> plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.-
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

"Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message
news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite
> nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company
> car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so.
> Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder
> and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you
> could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at
> around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it.

I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles
great. Great long-term quality.

I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, etc.

They all make good cars that last a long time.

Just what models did your wife get?

Jeff

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

"Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message
news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look quite
> nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new company
> car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K miles or so.
> Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem to get louder
> and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the vehicles you
> could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she turns it in at
> around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it.

I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles
great. Great long-term quality.

I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas, etc.

They all make good cars that last a long time.

Just what models did your wife get?

Jeff

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

Jeff wrote:
>
> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look
>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new
>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K
>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem
>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the
>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time
>> she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it.
>
> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles
> great. Great long-term quality.
>
> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas,
> etc.
>
> They all make good cars that last a long time.

that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage
of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger
than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed
beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage
being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage.

>
> Just what models did your wife get?
>
> Jeff

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

Jeff wrote:
>
> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look
>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new
>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K
>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem
>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the
>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time
>> she turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it.
>
> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles
> great. Great long-term quality.
>
> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas,
> etc.
>
> They all make good cars that last a long time.

that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage
of the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger
than 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed
beyond repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage
being junked, and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage.

>
> Just what models did your wife get?
>
> Jeff

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Jeff wrote:
>>
>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message
>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look
>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new
>>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K
>>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem
>>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the
>>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she
>>> turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it.
>>
>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles
>> great. Great long-term quality.
>>
>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas,
>> etc.
>>
>> They all make good cars that last a long time.
>
> that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage of
> the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger than
> 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed beyond
> repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage being junked,
> and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage.

Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them.

Jeff

>>
>> Just what models did your wife get?
>>
>> Jeff

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:2bmdnRO5vdwAKaHbnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Jeff wrote:
>>
>> "Wade" <nugr**v*@excite.com> wrote in message
>> news:bvadnezc3JJZBaHbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> My problem with American cars is not with design. Some of them look
>>> quite nice. It's the long term quality of the car. My wife gets a new
>>> company car every couple of years. The are usually great for the 30K
>>> miles or so. Around 35 to 40K they start have little issues, they seem
>>> to get louder and the ride is a noticeably rougher. On a couple of the
>>> vehicles you could feel the transmission start to slip. By the time she
>>> turns it in at around 60K miles, we can't wait to get rid of it.
>>
>> I have a '97 Contour with over 140k mi on it. It still runs and handles
>> great. Great long-term quality.
>>
>> I have heard similar things about other Fords, Toyotas, Chevys, Hondas,
>> etc.
>>
>> They all make good cars that last a long time.
>
> that's a crock dude. go to a junk yard. check out the age and mileage of
> the vehicles there. here in ca, there's hardly any hondas younger than
> 92, and even if there is one, it's only because it's been smashed beyond
> repair. detroit otoh has vehicle less than 10 years vintage being junked,
> and they're worn out at 1/3rd the mileage.

Some of the Michigan 3 models last a long time. Not all of them.

Jeff

>>
>> Just what models did your wife get?
>>
>> Jeff

Re: Fusion vs Camry and Accord - the Ford Challenge
 

On May 3, 5:18 am, pws <pwshel...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > I think one of Fords (and Chevy's) problems is that their car designs
> > suck. Every time I see a Fusion, or Milan, or the new Lincoln, etc on
> > the road I am struck by how ugly they are. Pretty much the same for
> > most of the Chevy's.
>
> > By contrast, look at the Nissan Altima. It's just a basic mid level
> > car but it looks NICE and they have made it look like QUALITY thru the
> > choices of materials and other design features. On some of the
> > Chevy's one of the things that often catches my eye is how things like
> > the parking lot rub strip doesn't even seem like it was glued on
> > straight. And don't get me started on the huge amount of cheap
> > plastic they glue to every Pontiac that comes down the assembly line.
>
> Wow, it is like I could have written that myself. I will never,
> absolutely never, buy another American car unless the intention is to
> immediately sell it for a profit somehow.
>
> Show me one American car that does not have a better but comparable
> Japanese offering. I thought that the Corvette was the sole exception
> due to the price/performance combination until recently.
>
i'd say that fusion is miles ahead of toyolet camry.
if i needed a midsize pigster i'd buy accord but if there was no
accord
and the choice is fusion or camry it's a no brainer.

i'm surprised toyolet sells so many of these couches on wheels
while there are comparable and better cars like fusion,
but, then, there are a ton of priuses bought by someone so i digress