Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

"Cliff Freeling" <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
snip
> > To play it safe, buy the Honda OEM anti-freeze for your Honda.
>
> "Playing it safe" can cost unecessarily. Believe me, I know. I've
> been around the block a few times, and have done much of my own
> auto repairs/service for years, and I can tell you that much of what
> is "recommended" from service people (who usually don't do as thorough
> a job as I do myself), and even the manuals, is totally unnecessary.

I agree and have similar experience. (I am an amateur home mechanic for very
basic car maintenance, like pretty much everything listed in the car's suggested
maintenance schedule.) I too loathe unnecessarily enriching corporate America.
E.g. I sure as heck don't change my oil every 3000 miles (anymore ;-) ). I'd
rather give the savings to charity.

Yet I hope we agree sometimes one does get what one pays for. Using OEM
anti-freeze might be one such instance, based on the many posts here on the
subject that talk about specific problems people feel their Hondas have had when
using NON-OEM anti-freeze, and the subsequent better performance when they
switched to OEM. Some of the people I respect most (e.g. who don't bullshit, who
don't push people around, and who admit their own mistakes over the years so as
to help others) in the group have this view based on personal experience with
their Hondas. I think I for one would be foolish to ignore it.

I appreciate your opinion. Barring further data, perhaps the Orange Dex is at
least a middle ground between the green Prestone/Peak and the OEM stuff. I will
keep the group posted... ;-)

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

"Cliff Freeling" <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
snip
> > To play it safe, buy the Honda OEM anti-freeze for your Honda.
>
> "Playing it safe" can cost unecessarily. Believe me, I know. I've
> been around the block a few times, and have done much of my own
> auto repairs/service for years, and I can tell you that much of what
> is "recommended" from service people (who usually don't do as thorough
> a job as I do myself), and even the manuals, is totally unnecessary.

I agree and have similar experience. (I am an amateur home mechanic for very
basic car maintenance, like pretty much everything listed in the car's suggested
maintenance schedule.) I too loathe unnecessarily enriching corporate America.
E.g. I sure as heck don't change my oil every 3000 miles (anymore ;-) ). I'd
rather give the savings to charity.

Yet I hope we agree sometimes one does get what one pays for. Using OEM
anti-freeze might be one such instance, based on the many posts here on the
subject that talk about specific problems people feel their Hondas have had when
using NON-OEM anti-freeze, and the subsequent better performance when they
switched to OEM. Some of the people I respect most (e.g. who don't bullshit, who
don't push people around, and who admit their own mistakes over the years so as
to help others) in the group have this view based on personal experience with
their Hondas. I think I for one would be foolish to ignore it.

I appreciate your opinion. Barring further data, perhaps the Orange Dex is at
least a middle ground between the green Prestone/Peak and the OEM stuff. I will
keep the group posted... ;-)

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

"Cliff Freeling" <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
snip
> > To play it safe, buy the Honda OEM anti-freeze for your Honda.
>
> "Playing it safe" can cost unecessarily. Believe me, I know. I've
> been around the block a few times, and have done much of my own
> auto repairs/service for years, and I can tell you that much of what
> is "recommended" from service people (who usually don't do as thorough
> a job as I do myself), and even the manuals, is totally unnecessary.

I agree and have similar experience. (I am an amateur home mechanic for very
basic car maintenance, like pretty much everything listed in the car's suggested
maintenance schedule.) I too loathe unnecessarily enriching corporate America.
E.g. I sure as heck don't change my oil every 3000 miles (anymore ;-) ). I'd
rather give the savings to charity.

Yet I hope we agree sometimes one does get what one pays for. Using OEM
anti-freeze might be one such instance, based on the many posts here on the
subject that talk about specific problems people feel their Hondas have had when
using NON-OEM anti-freeze, and the subsequent better performance when they
switched to OEM. Some of the people I respect most (e.g. who don't bullshit, who
don't push people around, and who admit their own mistakes over the years so as
to help others) in the group have this view based on personal experience with
their Hondas. I think I for one would be foolish to ignore it.

I appreciate your opinion. Barring further data, perhaps the Orange Dex is at
least a middle ground between the green Prestone/Peak and the OEM stuff. I will
keep the group posted... ;-)

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

"Cliff Freeling" <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
snip
> > To play it safe, buy the Honda OEM anti-freeze for your Honda.
>
> "Playing it safe" can cost unecessarily. Believe me, I know. I've
> been around the block a few times, and have done much of my own
> auto repairs/service for years, and I can tell you that much of what
> is "recommended" from service people (who usually don't do as thorough
> a job as I do myself), and even the manuals, is totally unnecessary.

I agree and have similar experience. (I am an amateur home mechanic for very
basic car maintenance, like pretty much everything listed in the car's suggested
maintenance schedule.) I too loathe unnecessarily enriching corporate America.
E.g. I sure as heck don't change my oil every 3000 miles (anymore ;-) ). I'd
rather give the savings to charity.

Yet I hope we agree sometimes one does get what one pays for. Using OEM
anti-freeze might be one such instance, based on the many posts here on the
subject that talk about specific problems people feel their Hondas have had when
using NON-OEM anti-freeze, and the subsequent better performance when they
switched to OEM. Some of the people I respect most (e.g. who don't bullshit, who
don't push people around, and who admit their own mistakes over the years so as
to help others) in the group have this view based on personal experience with
their Hondas. I think I for one would be foolish to ignore it.

I appreciate your opinion. Barring further data, perhaps the Orange Dex is at
least a middle ground between the green Prestone/Peak and the OEM stuff. I will
keep the group posted... ;-)

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In news:KKidnZ0PfsVSCpjdU-KYkQ@texas.net,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Larry Smith wrote:
>
> > There is no magic at work here. It is fairly simple chemistry.
> >
>
> Amen. To read some of these owner's manuals, you'd swear that
> Honda or Toyota aluminum atoms follow completely different laws of
> physics and chemistry than Ford or Chrysler aluminum atoms.

You may be onto something! Sub molecular nano technology!

--

-Philip

'If you don't pay the people enough money,
they can't buy the cars." -Henry Ford

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In news:KKidnZ0PfsVSCpjdU-KYkQ@texas.net,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Larry Smith wrote:
>
> > There is no magic at work here. It is fairly simple chemistry.
> >
>
> Amen. To read some of these owner's manuals, you'd swear that
> Honda or Toyota aluminum atoms follow completely different laws of
> physics and chemistry than Ford or Chrysler aluminum atoms.

You may be onto something! Sub molecular nano technology!

--

-Philip

'If you don't pay the people enough money,
they can't buy the cars." -Henry Ford

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In news:KKidnZ0PfsVSCpjdU-KYkQ@texas.net,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Larry Smith wrote:
>
> > There is no magic at work here. It is fairly simple chemistry.
> >
>
> Amen. To read some of these owner's manuals, you'd swear that
> Honda or Toyota aluminum atoms follow completely different laws of
> physics and chemistry than Ford or Chrysler aluminum atoms.

You may be onto something! Sub molecular nano technology!

--

-Philip

'If you don't pay the people enough money,
they can't buy the cars." -Henry Ford

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In news:KKidnZ0PfsVSCpjdU-KYkQ@texas.net,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Larry Smith wrote:
>
> > There is no magic at work here. It is fairly simple chemistry.
> >
>
> Amen. To read some of these owner's manuals, you'd swear that
> Honda or Toyota aluminum atoms follow completely different laws of
> physics and chemistry than Ford or Chrysler aluminum atoms.

You may be onto something! Sub molecular nano technology!

--

-Philip

'If you don't pay the people enough money,
they can't buy the cars." -Henry Ford

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

> And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
> that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
> your fingers crossed too :-)

You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
in conventional ethylene glycol AF.

- Mark

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

> And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
> that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
> your fingers crossed too :-)

You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
in conventional ethylene glycol AF.

- Mark

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

> And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
> that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
> your fingers crossed too :-)

You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
in conventional ethylene glycol AF.

- Mark

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

> And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
> that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
> your fingers crossed too :-)

You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
in conventional ethylene glycol AF.

- Mark

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In alt.autos.porsche Cliff Freeling <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote:
: It doesn't take much of a USENET search to see all the
: badmouthing about Peak antifreeze, I guess mainly because
: the brand contains phospate. People say this and that,
: and repeat what others say without much thought.

: I have visited the Peak site and they discuss these issues,
: and what they say makes sense to me at least. People blast
: Peak because of the phosphates, then turn right around and
: recommend distilled water for cooling sytems (which apparently
: pretty much removes any negative effect from the phospates).
: The Peak site claims that some European car makers say to avoid
: such antifreezes simply because Europe generally has much harder
: water than the U.S....makes sense to me.

: Read it for yourself: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_b.html

: Maybe I'm naive, but how could they legally make the claims on this
: page (http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peakanti.html) about their
: standard product if it weren't fact anyway?

: And yes, I changed the coolant in my German car today, and used
: 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, but have used Peak for years in
: my cars with no problems.

Well, if your refering to a watercooled porsche, there is a TSB that lists
approved anti-freezes... in addition to the VW and Mercedes house brands,
one of the Zerex made the list...

Check alldata.com for the TSB.

Is it worth saving $5 bucks to screw up a $5k motor?

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In alt.autos.porsche Cliff Freeling <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote:
: It doesn't take much of a USENET search to see all the
: badmouthing about Peak antifreeze, I guess mainly because
: the brand contains phospate. People say this and that,
: and repeat what others say without much thought.

: I have visited the Peak site and they discuss these issues,
: and what they say makes sense to me at least. People blast
: Peak because of the phosphates, then turn right around and
: recommend distilled water for cooling sytems (which apparently
: pretty much removes any negative effect from the phospates).
: The Peak site claims that some European car makers say to avoid
: such antifreezes simply because Europe generally has much harder
: water than the U.S....makes sense to me.

: Read it for yourself: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_b.html

: Maybe I'm naive, but how could they legally make the claims on this
: page (http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peakanti.html) about their
: standard product if it weren't fact anyway?

: And yes, I changed the coolant in my German car today, and used
: 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, but have used Peak for years in
: my cars with no problems.

Well, if your refering to a watercooled porsche, there is a TSB that lists
approved anti-freezes... in addition to the VW and Mercedes house brands,
one of the Zerex made the list...

Check alldata.com for the TSB.

Is it worth saving $5 bucks to screw up a $5k motor?

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
 

In alt.autos.porsche Cliff Freeling <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote:
: It doesn't take much of a USENET search to see all the
: badmouthing about Peak antifreeze, I guess mainly because
: the brand contains phospate. People say this and that,
: and repeat what others say without much thought.

: I have visited the Peak site and they discuss these issues,
: and what they say makes sense to me at least. People blast
: Peak because of the phosphates, then turn right around and
: recommend distilled water for cooling sytems (which apparently
: pretty much removes any negative effect from the phospates).
: The Peak site claims that some European car makers say to avoid
: such antifreezes simply because Europe generally has much harder
: water than the U.S....makes sense to me.

: Read it for yourself: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_b.html

: Maybe I'm naive, but how could they legally make the claims on this
: page (http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peakanti.html) about their
: standard product if it weren't fact anyway?

: And yes, I changed the coolant in my German car today, and used
: 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, but have used Peak for years in
: my cars with no problems.

Well, if your refering to a watercooled porsche, there is a TSB that lists
approved anti-freezes... in addition to the VW and Mercedes house brands,
one of the Zerex made the list...

Check alldata.com for the TSB.

Is it worth saving $5 bucks to screw up a $5k motor?

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)