All 4 cylinders are a piece of wood!
07-21-2005, 09:47 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Red Liner
and stop comparing "SILVIA"s since we are talking about North American market, not Japan or Europe, the 240sx came with a 150 hp out of a 2.5L engine....sorry, not that fancy.
Originally Posted by mondokyle
domestic cars are cheaper, and I don't argue the fact that alot of them are not built as well as Japanese cars and not engineered as well.. but for the price, they definitely make up for it. If Honda threw all the technology they had and built a large displacement motor, they would get a 500hp i-Vtec 4 litre NA 4 cylinder
07-21-2005, 09:50 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by Red Liner
the reason they use 3L v10's is because the formula mandates no more than 3L displacement, so ofcourse u're gonna dump as much technology as u can to get as much HP out of that displacemtnas possible
same thing with Rally, 2L but u are allowed to have a turbocharger, so ofcourse u're gonna work with that...trust me, if WRC allowed bigger displacment they would be using bigger displacement.
and NASCAR V8's spin to 9 grand and STAY THERE the entire race....thats pretty impressive IMO.
same thing with Rally, 2L but u are allowed to have a turbocharger, so ofcourse u're gonna work with that...trust me, if WRC allowed bigger displacment they would be using bigger displacement.
and NASCAR V8's spin to 9 grand and STAY THERE the entire race....thats pretty impressive IMO.
could reach 0-60(MPH) in 3 seconds which is crazy even for todays standards, in fact:
Henri Toivonen got it round Estoril in a 1.18.1 during the 1986 Portuguese Rally. To put that in perspective, Senna took pole in the Grand Prix that year in a 1.16.7. And yes, the track was dry for the F1 cars"
Last edited by ivperformance; 07-21-2005 at 09:54 AM.
07-21-2005, 10:56 AM
#33
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I see what mondokyle is saying, but for most people, a large engine just isn't practical. This is just MY preference, but I would prefer a smaller displacement turbocharged engine over a larger displacement normally aspirated engine. Smaller engine's weigh less, are smaller in physical size, but with a turbo charger, can still make the same amount of HP that a big V8 could and still get good gas milage out of boost because of the smaller engine's lower pumping losses. Don't get me wrong, I would love an 8.0L V10 or some other huge engine, but will it fit in the kind of car I prefer driving (smaller cars), No, will it be fuel efficient, No... giant engines with multiple cylinders just aren't practical for everyone.
Now I think mondokyle needs to take his head out of his *** and stop being so ignorant.
Now I think mondokyle needs to take his head out of his *** and stop being so ignorant.
07-21-2005, 04:37 PM
#34
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I like big motors but I can barely afford the $1.10/L Ultra94 im putting into my 4 cylinder...For that reason and many others that have already been discussed, I will be sticking with the smaller displacememt engines!
And as for the comment of american auto manufacturers helping out the asian manufactured automobiles with money...I dont have time to do the research but even IF they did at one point in time help out financially..the tables have turned, GM recently Upgraded the status of their bonds to JUNK status..if it wasnt for the American Government, the US auto manufacturers would be out of business long ago, and lord knows they have no capabilites to pay back the HUGE loans they have outstanding...Oh and BTW take a look AT GM, they have a new line of vehicles and oddly enough they are POWERED BY HONDA lol...first car GM makes that wont break down inside of 6 months, the body will rot before the motor haha
^^Go ahead and argue those points, but they are common knowledge and made available through financial digests and news listings..THanks
Edit: Did a quick search and found this, I wish I still had the links to rest of the info I sourced my info from...
Vue Powered by Honda
Did another quick search..here is on of many articles talking about how Ford and GM bonds have been downgraded to JUNK status!
Ford and GM JUNK BONDS
And as for the comment of american auto manufacturers helping out the asian manufactured automobiles with money...I dont have time to do the research but even IF they did at one point in time help out financially..the tables have turned, GM recently Upgraded the status of their bonds to JUNK status..if it wasnt for the American Government, the US auto manufacturers would be out of business long ago, and lord knows they have no capabilites to pay back the HUGE loans they have outstanding...Oh and BTW take a look AT GM, they have a new line of vehicles and oddly enough they are POWERED BY HONDA lol...first car GM makes that wont break down inside of 6 months, the body will rot before the motor haha
^^Go ahead and argue those points, but they are common knowledge and made available through financial digests and news listings..THanks
Edit: Did a quick search and found this, I wish I still had the links to rest of the info I sourced my info from...
Vue Powered by Honda
Did another quick search..here is on of many articles talking about how Ford and GM bonds have been downgraded to JUNK status!
Ford and GM JUNK BONDS
Last edited by Orthow; 07-21-2005 at 04:45 PM.
07-21-2005, 05:07 PM
#35
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Look the guy who started this thread doesn't even drive. And we're supposed to care what he says? My 4 cylinder engine cost me approx 8000 dollars, and the mods to the car cost approx 4000. Add in the $300 price (I got a deal! 75 000 kms on it. MINT!) And you've got a $13,000 car that gets 35 mpg, will take a vette, and viper in the 1/4 and will take almost everything you can find in an autocross. So if you want to say it's a POS because it's a 4 cyl, mondokyle, or whatever the name is, why don't you call a cab come to the track and we'll see what an 8 cyl crown vic can really do.
P.S. I'll start off in 3rd gear so it's somewhat even.
P.S. I'll start off in 3rd gear so it's somewhat even.
07-21-2005, 06:31 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by rabbitman
Look the guy who started this thread doesn't even drive. And we're supposed to care what he says? My 4 cylinder engine cost me approx 8000 dollars, and the mods to the car cost approx 4000. Add in the $300 price (I got a deal! 75 000 kms on it. MINT!) And you've got a $13,000 car that gets 35 mpg, will take a vette, and viper in the 1/4 and will take almost everything you can find in an autocross. So if you want to say it's a POS because it's a 4 cyl, mondokyle, or whatever the name is, why don't you call a cab come to the track and we'll see what an 8 cyl crown vic can really do.
P.S. I'll start off in 3rd gear so it's somewhat even.
P.S. I'll start off in 3rd gear so it's somewhat even.
07-21-2005, 08:42 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by rabbitman
Look the guy who started this thread doesn't even drive. And we're supposed to care what he says? My 4 cylinder engine cost me approx 8000 dollars, and the mods to the car cost approx 4000. Add in the $300 price (I got a deal! 75 000 kms on it. MINT!) And you've got a $13,000 car that gets 35 mpg, will take a vette, and viper in the 1/4 and will take almost everything you can find in an autocross. So if you want to say it's a POS because it's a 4 cyl, mondokyle, or whatever the name is, why don't you call a cab come to the track and we'll see what an 8 cyl crown vic can really do.
P.S. I'll start off in 3rd gear so it's somewhat even.
P.S. I'll start off in 3rd gear so it's somewhat even.
07-21-2005, 10:19 PM
#38
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stupid IGNORANT s.
Im tired of dumbass dinks. Give respect where respect is due. Not because of howmany ing cylinders it has to begin with or is xy make.
if something runs 9's..10's...11's..12's...13's... etc it gets respect imo.
Stupid people
Im tired of dumbass dinks. Give respect where respect is due. Not because of howmany ing cylinders it has to begin with or is xy make.
if something runs 9's..10's...11's..12's...13's... etc it gets respect imo.
Stupid people
07-22-2005, 12:09 AM
#39
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Orthow, it sounds like bad old GM is in trouble. Shame, because our way of life in Ontario has a lot to do with the success of GM, Ford etc. There many people employed by their industry, including the suppliers. Look at the export numbers and start crying if it dies. The imports came here with a clean slate where-as the domestic manufacturers have a ton of historical baggage to continuously deal with. We will all personally benefit if the big 3 do well. Even Toyota recognizes this.
Quote:
Oh and BTW take a look AT GM, they have a new line of vehicles and oddly enough they are POWERED BY HONDA lol...first car GM makes that wont break down inside of 6 months, the body will rot before the motor haha
Reading this, I can tell you're not a fan of GM, but that's a little misleading...Only the Saturn Vue is powered by a Honda V6. BTW, GM supplies automatic transmissions to BMW and they seem to be working well. I'm sure GM does a few things right. The most prolific motor on the planet is the GM 3.8/ 3800. I've taken 4 of these to well over 300,000 km with out problems.
It sounds like you've not had very good experiences with GM. Too bad, because I've had reliable vehicles from them.
It’s not a question of 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, rather displacement, and power to weight. A little light weight car can move as quickly as a large heavy car with less HP. My little V6 produces a wealth of power, with the help of a turbo, but I have friends with larger displacement turbo V8s that can make almost twice the power.
Quote:
Oh and BTW take a look AT GM, they have a new line of vehicles and oddly enough they are POWERED BY HONDA lol...first car GM makes that wont break down inside of 6 months, the body will rot before the motor haha
Reading this, I can tell you're not a fan of GM, but that's a little misleading...Only the Saturn Vue is powered by a Honda V6. BTW, GM supplies automatic transmissions to BMW and they seem to be working well. I'm sure GM does a few things right. The most prolific motor on the planet is the GM 3.8/ 3800. I've taken 4 of these to well over 300,000 km with out problems.
It sounds like you've not had very good experiences with GM. Too bad, because I've had reliable vehicles from them.
It’s not a question of 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, rather displacement, and power to weight. A little light weight car can move as quickly as a large heavy car with less HP. My little V6 produces a wealth of power, with the help of a turbo, but I have friends with larger displacement turbo V8s that can make almost twice the power.
07-22-2005, 03:10 AM
#40
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Wtf?
All 4 cylinders are NOT pieces of wood.
Besides how would you know if you don't drive?
Four clyinders have come a long way. Stock they make good power and provide good gas mileage and good power . Turbo's give them even more. What's wrong with that? Not real displacement? Who cares? The bus you ride uses a turbo too!!! So long as motor passes the air it needs to make the power what's the diff? Plus , they are pretty reliable now as well.
As far as tuning goes John Lingenfelter made his 4 cyl ecotec RWD Chevy Cobalt run 6.99 in the quarter (1200+hp!!! died trying making the back up run) a couple years back.
As someone pointed out in a previous post, the Silvia makes 247 hp with a 2L 4 cyl. It doesn't really matter that the Silvia is not available here because it was still done. What about 240 hp out of a 4 cyl S2000 , thats amazing. I don't care who you are, those are good numbers.
Hey, even the 1987 Buick GNX 3.8L 6 cylinder made 276 hp and 360 ftlb of torque with a turbo, bone stock! The 1989 20th Aniverary Trans Am made 300 hp(actual note rated) , with a slightly different version of 3.8 L 6 cyl motor, bone stock as well! What about the rotaries?
At the same time, not all V8's are wood eigther.
V8's have been around for a while and work well , just look at the new Corvette, M5 or a CTS-V . They all make great power with what they have and get decent mileage. The 6 speed corvette gets better gas mileage than an EVO! Now with 8 cylinder cars coming out with displacement on demand and better overdrive ratios in the transmissions the gas consumption should be down as well. Plus , you can make certain 8 cyl cars fast for cheap because of the parts availability.
So...
What do exotics use?
What do formula 1 and indy cars use?
What do rally cars use?
What about SUV's and Monster Trucks?
Economy cars?
I guess what's good depends on the car and what its used for. Because , while a 4 cyl would work in a civic it wont work in a M5 BMW or the bus you ride (haha you ride a bus!
) . The flip side of that is that a 8 cyl motor would probably not work in a rally car that well eigther.
As far as the GM vs Foriegn debate goes,
I have a four cyl GM car, myself. I like it , it gets me where I need to go. I have had my share of cars. My first was a 84 Pontiac 6000 (thanks mom), followed by a 88 Grand Prix , now its a 90 GTZ. I have been pretty happy with my cars because of the low cost of maintainance and reliability I have had with them. None of them rusted out, and they are all still running. When was the last time you saw a 84 honda without rust ?
I am sticking with GM cuz I took care of them and they lasted .
GM did make some crap cars in the 80's and 90's though. GM seems to be coming around now as a lot of their cars are now pretty good.
Anyway, why is this thread still going on ? With treads like this it's no wonder they sold TSR, lol.
Besides how would you know if you don't drive?
Four clyinders have come a long way. Stock they make good power and provide good gas mileage and good power . Turbo's give them even more. What's wrong with that? Not real displacement? Who cares? The bus you ride uses a turbo too!!! So long as motor passes the air it needs to make the power what's the diff? Plus , they are pretty reliable now as well.
As far as tuning goes John Lingenfelter made his 4 cyl ecotec RWD Chevy Cobalt run 6.99 in the quarter (1200+hp!!! died trying making the back up run) a couple years back.
As someone pointed out in a previous post, the Silvia makes 247 hp with a 2L 4 cyl. It doesn't really matter that the Silvia is not available here because it was still done. What about 240 hp out of a 4 cyl S2000 , thats amazing. I don't care who you are, those are good numbers.
Hey, even the 1987 Buick GNX 3.8L 6 cylinder made 276 hp and 360 ftlb of torque with a turbo, bone stock! The 1989 20th Aniverary Trans Am made 300 hp(actual note rated) , with a slightly different version of 3.8 L 6 cyl motor, bone stock as well! What about the rotaries?
At the same time, not all V8's are wood eigther.
V8's have been around for a while and work well , just look at the new Corvette, M5 or a CTS-V . They all make great power with what they have and get decent mileage. The 6 speed corvette gets better gas mileage than an EVO! Now with 8 cylinder cars coming out with displacement on demand and better overdrive ratios in the transmissions the gas consumption should be down as well. Plus , you can make certain 8 cyl cars fast for cheap because of the parts availability.
So...
What do exotics use?
What do formula 1 and indy cars use?
What do rally cars use?
What about SUV's and Monster Trucks?
Economy cars?
I guess what's good depends on the car and what its used for. Because , while a 4 cyl would work in a civic it wont work in a M5 BMW or the bus you ride (haha you ride a bus!
) . The flip side of that is that a 8 cyl motor would probably not work in a rally car that well eigther. As far as the GM vs Foriegn debate goes,
I have a four cyl GM car, myself. I like it , it gets me where I need to go. I have had my share of cars. My first was a 84 Pontiac 6000 (thanks mom), followed by a 88 Grand Prix , now its a 90 GTZ. I have been pretty happy with my cars because of the low cost of maintainance and reliability I have had with them. None of them rusted out, and they are all still running. When was the last time you saw a 84 honda without rust ?
I am sticking with GM cuz I took care of them and they lasted .
GM did make some crap cars in the 80's and 90's though. GM seems to be coming around now as a lot of their cars are now pretty good.
Anyway, why is this thread still going on ? With treads like this it's no wonder they sold TSR, lol.
07-22-2005, 09:34 AM
#41
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Anyhow.. Like i've said many times.. The reason I start these posts is due to the fact that most small displacement 4 cylinder enthusiasts believe that their:
a) $h!t don't stink
b) their respective cars are 20 feet wide and 20 feet high
c) have ego's that put down anything remotely dosmestic and hate anything with a displacement of over 2 litres
d) are in a constant state of denial that their go-fastmobiles can kill everything on the world (Vipers/Porsches/Ferraris) and thus rationalize that their car is the best thing since sliced bread..
I hate these *****.. and they should be dragged back to asia, put to work as a farmer and for the betterment of society.. shot dead...
I don't drive.. but I am not afflicted with any of the above either.. so if I had to choose.. I'd rather not drive than to be part of that "
" group..
a) $h!t don't stink
b) their respective cars are 20 feet wide and 20 feet high
c) have ego's that put down anything remotely dosmestic and hate anything with a displacement of over 2 litres
d) are in a constant state of denial that their go-fastmobiles can kill everything on the world (Vipers/Porsches/Ferraris) and thus rationalize that their car is the best thing since sliced bread..
I hate these *****.. and they should be dragged back to asia, put to work as a farmer and for the betterment of society.. shot dead...
I don't drive.. but I am not afflicted with any of the above either.. so if I had to choose.. I'd rather not drive than to be part of that "
" group..
07-22-2005, 11:44 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by RogueVette
Orthow, it sounds like bad old GM is in trouble. Shame, because our way of life in Ontario has a lot to do with the success of GM, Ford etc. There many people employed by their industry, including the suppliers. Look at the export numbers and start crying if it dies. The imports came here with a clean slate where-as the domestic manufacturers have a ton of historical baggage to continuously deal with. We will all personally benefit if the big 3 do well. Even Toyota recognizes this.
Quote:
Oh and BTW take a look AT GM, they have a new line of vehicles and oddly enough they are POWERED BY HONDA lol...first car GM makes that wont break down inside of 6 months, the body will rot before the motor haha
Reading this, I can tell you're not a fan of GM, but that's a little misleading...Only the Saturn Vue is powered by a Honda V6. BTW, GM supplies automatic transmissions to BMW and they seem to be working well. I'm sure GM does a few things right. The most prolific motor on the planet is the GM 3.8/ 3800. I've taken 4 of these to well over 300,000 km with out problems.
It sounds like you've not had very good experiences with GM. Too bad, because I've had reliable vehicles from them.
It’s not a question of 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, rather displacement, and power to weight. A little light weight car can move as quickly as a large heavy car with less HP. My little V6 produces a wealth of power, with the help of a turbo, but I have friends with larger displacement turbo V8s that can make almost twice the power.
Quote:
Oh and BTW take a look AT GM, they have a new line of vehicles and oddly enough they are POWERED BY HONDA lol...first car GM makes that wont break down inside of 6 months, the body will rot before the motor haha
Reading this, I can tell you're not a fan of GM, but that's a little misleading...Only the Saturn Vue is powered by a Honda V6. BTW, GM supplies automatic transmissions to BMW and they seem to be working well. I'm sure GM does a few things right. The most prolific motor on the planet is the GM 3.8/ 3800. I've taken 4 of these to well over 300,000 km with out problems.
It sounds like you've not had very good experiences with GM. Too bad, because I've had reliable vehicles from them.
It’s not a question of 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, rather displacement, and power to weight. A little light weight car can move as quickly as a large heavy car with less HP. My little V6 produces a wealth of power, with the help of a turbo, but I have friends with larger displacement turbo V8s that can make almost twice the power.
Im glad to see there was atleast one good response to my thread that I actually sourced articles to back up my claims...now if everyone did that, the arguements started by these slack jawed yockles might actually have some bearing..
As for the topic at hand. Its dead, more than enough good opinions have been given for both sides and the creator of the post doesnt even drive, it looks more like he was riding the bus home from work and got pissed off at watching a 16yr old drive a civic home! lol Your *** started this thread claiming all 4 cylinders are wood and than by the fourth page you say your real beef is with the drivers of these cars which you have so arrogantly stereotyped...hows about you STFU now since you have no arguement other than your own jealousy!
07-22-2005, 05:41 PM
#43
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I might be Jealous and Arrogant.. But lookie here:
Buying a high end PC: $5000 (Which you can't afford oro-f\_/Ck or whatever with your $2/hour red-neck packin' job)
Paying for high speed internet: $35/month
Taking public transportation: $98.75/month
Watching your face get beet red while you get so riled up over this small displacement/large displacement thing: PRICELESS..
Buying a high end PC: $5000 (Which you can't afford oro-f\_/Ck or whatever with your $2/hour red-neck packin' job)
Paying for high speed internet: $35/month
Taking public transportation: $98.75/month
Watching your face get beet red while you get so riled up over this small displacement/large displacement thing: PRICELESS..
07-22-2005, 05:58 PM
#44
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???
Originally Posted by mondokyle
I might be Jealous and Arrogant.. But lookie here:
Buying a high end PC: $5000 (Which you can't afford oro-f\_/Ck or whatever with your $2/hour red-neck packin' job)
Paying for high speed internet: $35/month
Taking public transportation: $98.75/month
Watching your face get beet red while you get so riled up over this small displacement/large displacement thing: PRICELESS..
Buying a high end PC: $5000 (Which you can't afford oro-f\_/Ck or whatever with your $2/hour red-neck packin' job)
Paying for high speed internet: $35/month
Taking public transportation: $98.75/month
Watching your face get beet red while you get so riled up over this small displacement/large displacement thing: PRICELESS..
Wow,for that money you could get a half decent computer and a car instead of riding the bus.
"who's the loser now???"
07-22-2005, 06:14 PM
#45
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lmao, what a moron :supergay: