GTcars.ca Profiled By CityNews On Streetracing
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: GTA
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under this anti street racing bill/law and curent laws - I see it as almost every single driver/vihicle is guilty and heres why
1. a race is described as a speed test, a metered test, etc... that makes every bus, taxi cab in operation as illegal cuz buses follow a predescribed route and stick to a time schedule, taxi cabs meter their time
2. cabs are allways gunning it when the light turns green, so 2 cabs side by side who gun it to cross the intersection (with occupants mind you) first to get into only one avail lane - is racing PERIOD and putting innocent passangers at risk. so by that annalogy, cabs should be seized/impounded, drivers fined, suspended licences, and perhaps jail time
3. any vehicle can speed/race, not just modified cars. many ppl love to modify a car but never race them. safe is safe period.
4. the HTA says a 500 HP limit on road vehicles yet many cars (Z06) come stock with more, hence illegal for public road use
5. I saw some crap about shaving door handles being illegal - they are NOT illegal. what happens when you lock your doors and yer unconcious, can paramedics/fire crew open them, NO. what about having handles and the door unlocked but an accident buckles the door and it is unopenable? this is what the jaws of life are for
6. most ppl on any road way are racing each other all the time, to get to work, to school, home, etc... we all race each other and jockey for position, therefore we are ALL illegal street racers, including grannies, businessmen, politicians, transport trucks, you name it
the list can go on - basically we all race all the time (almost all) in some form or fashion. So how do we distinguish what a street race is? If Im driving speed limit and making proper lane changes and some ****tard is following me trough traffic - a cop can pull us both over and say we were racing each other even when I had no clue that ****tard was following me.
ticketing and harassing ppl who go to the track is just plain fukked up. I agree with JudgeZ totally bout setting up a info booth/inspection booth, however tieing a car down with bungie chords is just plain stupid. Cars that race on tracks are inspected and held to a higher standard (for safety reasons) than road use only vehicles, so if a vehicle is fit for track then it should be fit for road (save except a few areas of the vehicle, like ground clearance)
I am 100000000% all for safety not just on roads but everywhere possible.
by some of the polices thought patterns about nailing ppl with modded cars is like saying they should nail every gun owner cuz they might/intend to use it illegally, we should simply lock every single person up cuz we all have the potential to break the law. Maybe we should lock up ever mental person on the sidewalks cuz they LOOK like they might endanger the public tooo
sorry if some of this is incoherent, but hopefully you get the point. I do see a lot of unsafe moded rides on the road that should be pulled off and made safe, but a lot of what goes on out there is just plain fukked up and wrong
I understand that police officers have a job to do and I agree with them when they are doing things properly, but I do not agree with handing out tickets for BS stuff and congesting court rooms and pissing off judges who will only dismiss BS tix. Judges are not mechanics (for the most part). But I agree with real actual tix like if yer exhaust is dragging on the road and held by a hanger - you deserve a tix, etc..
rant over (for now), now to change the mood to a better tone - I have included some pix, enjoy
1. a race is described as a speed test, a metered test, etc... that makes every bus, taxi cab in operation as illegal cuz buses follow a predescribed route and stick to a time schedule, taxi cabs meter their time
2. cabs are allways gunning it when the light turns green, so 2 cabs side by side who gun it to cross the intersection (with occupants mind you) first to get into only one avail lane - is racing PERIOD and putting innocent passangers at risk. so by that annalogy, cabs should be seized/impounded, drivers fined, suspended licences, and perhaps jail time
3. any vehicle can speed/race, not just modified cars. many ppl love to modify a car but never race them. safe is safe period.
4. the HTA says a 500 HP limit on road vehicles yet many cars (Z06) come stock with more, hence illegal for public road use
5. I saw some crap about shaving door handles being illegal - they are NOT illegal. what happens when you lock your doors and yer unconcious, can paramedics/fire crew open them, NO. what about having handles and the door unlocked but an accident buckles the door and it is unopenable? this is what the jaws of life are for
6. most ppl on any road way are racing each other all the time, to get to work, to school, home, etc... we all race each other and jockey for position, therefore we are ALL illegal street racers, including grannies, businessmen, politicians, transport trucks, you name it
the list can go on - basically we all race all the time (almost all) in some form or fashion. So how do we distinguish what a street race is? If Im driving speed limit and making proper lane changes and some ****tard is following me trough traffic - a cop can pull us both over and say we were racing each other even when I had no clue that ****tard was following me.
ticketing and harassing ppl who go to the track is just plain fukked up. I agree with JudgeZ totally bout setting up a info booth/inspection booth, however tieing a car down with bungie chords is just plain stupid. Cars that race on tracks are inspected and held to a higher standard (for safety reasons) than road use only vehicles, so if a vehicle is fit for track then it should be fit for road (save except a few areas of the vehicle, like ground clearance)
I am 100000000% all for safety not just on roads but everywhere possible.
by some of the polices thought patterns about nailing ppl with modded cars is like saying they should nail every gun owner cuz they might/intend to use it illegally, we should simply lock every single person up cuz we all have the potential to break the law. Maybe we should lock up ever mental person on the sidewalks cuz they LOOK like they might endanger the public tooo
sorry if some of this is incoherent, but hopefully you get the point. I do see a lot of unsafe moded rides on the road that should be pulled off and made safe, but a lot of what goes on out there is just plain fukked up and wrong
I understand that police officers have a job to do and I agree with them when they are doing things properly, but I do not agree with handing out tickets for BS stuff and congesting court rooms and pissing off judges who will only dismiss BS tix. Judges are not mechanics (for the most part). But I agree with real actual tix like if yer exhaust is dragging on the road and held by a hanger - you deserve a tix, etc..
rant over (for now), now to change the mood to a better tone - I have included some pix, enjoy
Well said Kuztom Freak
~~ Hardcore Newb ~~
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 136
From: Markham
Rep Power: 702
HTA says cars cant be over 500hp??? so, you cant register veyron, and most ferrari, viper, semi-trailer and other powerful car here in ontario??? btw, can you give me the part where they say that
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Originally Posted by R/T kota
Can you back up those stats?
Most of the so called street racing death that I have seen in the news involved only one speeding vehicle.
Takes two to make a race.
What they say in the news and what really happens are often two totally different things.
Most of the so called street racing death that I have seen in the news involved only one speeding vehicle.
Takes two to make a race.
What they say in the news and what really happens are often two totally different things.
Originally Posted by birdie92k
Oh yes and those polls would be taken in the "good" areas and not in the "troubled" ones. C'mon polls are very dependent on the constituents in which they are taken. You think there would be overwhelming support for cops in jane and finch? Oh but they're lots of lawbreakers there right?
Originally Posted by birdie92k
Agressive driving and speeding can just as easily be the cause of an acccident with one vehicle.
Originally Posted by birdie92k
Give my head a shake? You clearly read that incorrectly. That was a point for you in that there probably is street racing involved in numerous accident but not reported to be street racing. JUST AS there's lots of drunk drivers going under the radar. That why the numbers for drunk drivers are going down but street racers is going up. There's a focus on street racing now. You see more of something when that's what your attention is focused on duh! That's not rocket science.
Originally Posted by birdie92k
How long should the government wait? They've already passed that point a while ago. How many street racing deaths are ok? NONE! It is avoidable but not intentional.
Avoidable means that you shouldn't drink before you drive. That way you avoid unintentionally killing someone.
No person says to themselves, "I'm going to drink myself into oblivion and then intentionally go out and kill someone with my car." Same applies to someone who goes out and races on the street. But both acts, impaired driving and street racing, significantly raise the risk of harm to others on or near the road. That's why the hard line is taken on both.
Originally Posted by birdie92k
And yes I make "opinions" but how can people find out for sure when the law makers and enforcers are virtually untouchable?
Opinions are fine, but they should be based on some semblance of reality, and not on malicious rumours often circulated out of spite.
Last edited by gldwngr; May 10, 2007 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yes what kuztom said is a real fear of a lot of people. How will they distinguish racing from not racing? As per their definition races happen every second probably. I guess what they want to say is, if 2 modified or high end vehicles are involved tickets will be handed out. Unless of course you're a politician with some clout.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by birdie92k
Yes what kuztom said is a real fear of a lot of people. How will they distinguish racing from not racing? As per their definition races happen every second probably. I guess what they want to say is, if 2 modified or high end vehicles are involved tickets will be handed out. Unless of course you're a politician with some clout.
Put your tin foil hat on and your fears will go away.
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i do like what Kuztom Freak said but to every story there re 2 side. no matter what we say gldwngr will find a way to turn it around, no matter what he says we find a way to do the same. i will tell you this though and this is the truth. ive asked a bunch of people, just regular joe blows i work with and friends of the family about street racing and youd be suprised how many had no idea what it even was. they didnt realise that drag racing like that happened on the street but everyone of them knoew that people drank and drove home drunk.
you wanna stop people engaging in a competition of speed, make every vehicle the exact same, eliminate all aftermarket parts from canada and make them all illegal. set speed governors on every car lower, like why the hell would a cavalier have to go abover 172 kph in the first place? everything is preventable. you wanna sto pdrinking and driving eliminate park lots from around bars and clubs so that people cant park there or setup a station where the driver has to blow into a tube to proove his sobriety before having his car released form the parking lot. that would work great actually.
fact of the matter is this, street racing has been around since the second ford rolled off the production line, it will never stop, before that people raced on horses or camels or whatever the **** they rode depending on where you come from. but its in mans nature to be competitive and to want to be on top of his competition.
gldwngr i respect you alot for coming on here and having this discussion with this, and even more so i respect evryone in here for keeping things at a mature level.
also one other thing, i talked to some of my racing ubddies tonite at an offroad meet i was at for a club i run, and they agred that the inspection booth at the track is a great idea and theyd put their cars through it aswell when going to race at the track, so maybe its something for you guys to think about in the future. a way to helpou tthe community of sorts and to create awarness for some people who are just oblivious
you wanna stop people engaging in a competition of speed, make every vehicle the exact same, eliminate all aftermarket parts from canada and make them all illegal. set speed governors on every car lower, like why the hell would a cavalier have to go abover 172 kph in the first place? everything is preventable. you wanna sto pdrinking and driving eliminate park lots from around bars and clubs so that people cant park there or setup a station where the driver has to blow into a tube to proove his sobriety before having his car released form the parking lot. that would work great actually.
fact of the matter is this, street racing has been around since the second ford rolled off the production line, it will never stop, before that people raced on horses or camels or whatever the **** they rode depending on where you come from. but its in mans nature to be competitive and to want to be on top of his competition.
gldwngr i respect you alot for coming on here and having this discussion with this, and even more so i respect evryone in here for keeping things at a mature level.
also one other thing, i talked to some of my racing ubddies tonite at an offroad meet i was at for a club i run, and they agred that the inspection booth at the track is a great idea and theyd put their cars through it aswell when going to race at the track, so maybe its something for you guys to think about in the future. a way to helpou tthe community of sorts and to create awarness for some people who are just oblivious
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 323
From: GTA
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Heres one better about the inspection booth - have them all over Ontario, not just at tracks - but have them so that ppl can take their rides in without fear of getting a ticket, they would simply be to inspect, to educate, to make suggestions, but in going, you would be guarranteed NOT to get a ticket for any reason because you are going there to better yourself as well as to better your vehicle.
Goldwinger - you said something previously about cars not being transport trucks (or similar) and that large vehicles are acceptable for making more noise, well buddy - EVERY vehicle (buses, tractoe trailers, motorbikes, construction equip, etc...) CAN be muffled to very low audiable tones, not just cars and light trucks. Stick a bigger muffler on the larger vehicles and they WILL be much quieter
Golwinger - I read this a while back and forgot the stats exactly, but, didn't the government/opp/news/ or whoever state that since 1999 there have been 38 fatalities involving street racing, and then you went on to say something like 10 ppl die every yr just in the GTA - my question is - who's stats are correct?
Golwinger - (lol , not picking on ya but) seriously, if a police officer is to uphold and inforce the law, then technically wouldnt they be required to charge taxis for racing each other in the downtown busy as hell core? What I think you might be getting at is that police will only target visible minority vehicles (EX 2 or more vehicles whipping through traffic/ racing on a quiet road and not everyday drivers) but then this would be selective enforcement/ prejudice/ biasness. If its fair to nail racers, then its fair to nail cabbies. I think what you were trying to say (sorry if I put words in yer mouth) was that cops can distinctivly see when 2 or more cars are racing, namely visible vehicle minorities. How would you feel if you were driving around like you allways do and some ****** was whipping around the road in close proximity to you and a cop nails you both for racing when you absoloutly were not? Dude - this is a legit fear for some. So really, how do you determine what is and what is not racing? How does a cop decide? Is it their own personal opinion? We need a standard for this and it must be plain and clear as day, hence the current prob with procecuting suspected racing.
Im working on finding the HTA maximum road horsepower thing, I know it exists cuz I've known ppl in the past who drove muscle cars and recieved papers to have their cars dynoed in suspecion of having maximum or beyond horsepower. So I know there is a max limit on HP, I believe it's 500, once was in the hood of 450+HP, but since ammended.
Basically the government takes a bribe from manufacturers to let their products exceed/not conform with the HTA and or Transport Canada Regulations.
I have a non OEM bug deflector on my hood (only mod to my Daily Driver) is that legal? kidding of course.
Oh and JudgeZ, henry ford raced cars long b4 he ever built a single car, loooo, and he suxxed as a racer
and having every car being the same would not stop racing, thats what the IROC and Miata celebrity racing series, F1, etc.. are all about - its driver VS driver in identicle cars.
Goldwinger - you said something previously about cars not being transport trucks (or similar) and that large vehicles are acceptable for making more noise, well buddy - EVERY vehicle (buses, tractoe trailers, motorbikes, construction equip, etc...) CAN be muffled to very low audiable tones, not just cars and light trucks. Stick a bigger muffler on the larger vehicles and they WILL be much quieter
Golwinger - I read this a while back and forgot the stats exactly, but, didn't the government/opp/news/ or whoever state that since 1999 there have been 38 fatalities involving street racing, and then you went on to say something like 10 ppl die every yr just in the GTA - my question is - who's stats are correct?
Golwinger - (lol , not picking on ya but) seriously, if a police officer is to uphold and inforce the law, then technically wouldnt they be required to charge taxis for racing each other in the downtown busy as hell core? What I think you might be getting at is that police will only target visible minority vehicles (EX 2 or more vehicles whipping through traffic/ racing on a quiet road and not everyday drivers) but then this would be selective enforcement/ prejudice/ biasness. If its fair to nail racers, then its fair to nail cabbies. I think what you were trying to say (sorry if I put words in yer mouth) was that cops can distinctivly see when 2 or more cars are racing, namely visible vehicle minorities. How would you feel if you were driving around like you allways do and some ****** was whipping around the road in close proximity to you and a cop nails you both for racing when you absoloutly were not? Dude - this is a legit fear for some. So really, how do you determine what is and what is not racing? How does a cop decide? Is it their own personal opinion? We need a standard for this and it must be plain and clear as day, hence the current prob with procecuting suspected racing.
Im working on finding the HTA maximum road horsepower thing, I know it exists cuz I've known ppl in the past who drove muscle cars and recieved papers to have their cars dynoed in suspecion of having maximum or beyond horsepower. So I know there is a max limit on HP, I believe it's 500, once was in the hood of 450+HP, but since ammended.
Basically the government takes a bribe from manufacturers to let their products exceed/not conform with the HTA and or Transport Canada Regulations.
I have a non OEM bug deflector on my hood (only mod to my Daily Driver) is that legal? kidding of course.
Oh and JudgeZ, henry ford raced cars long b4 he ever built a single car, loooo, and he suxxed as a racer
and having every car being the same would not stop racing, thats what the IROC and Miata celebrity racing series, F1, etc.. are all about - its driver VS driver in identicle cars.
Last edited by Kuztom Freak; May 10, 2007 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Originally Posted by qaz393
a bug deflector on your hood can be illegal if it blocks most of the view in front of the road. ex. a bug deflector 3 feet high would be illegal
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 393
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Originally Posted by Kuztom Freak
Heres one better about the inspection booth - have them all over Ontario, not just at tracks - but have them so that ppl can take their rides in without fear of getting a ticket, they would simply be to inspect, to educate, to make suggestions, but in going, you would be guarranteed NOT to get a ticket for any reason because you are going there to better yourself as well as to better your vehicle.
Goldwinger - you said something previously about cars not being transport trucks (or similar) and that large vehicles are acceptable for making more noise, well buddy - EVERY vehicle (buses, tractoe trailers, motorbikes, construction equip, etc...) CAN be muffled to very low audiable tones, not just cars and light trucks. Stick a bigger muffler on the larger vehicles and they WILL be much quieter
Golwinger - I read this a while back and forgot the stats exactly, but, didn't the government/opp/news/ or whoever state that since 1999 there have been 38 fatalities involving street racing, and then you went on to say something like 10 ppl die every yr just in the GTA - my question is - who's stats are correct?
Golwinger - (lol , not picking on ya but) seriously, if a police officer is to uphold and inforce the law, then technically wouldnt they be required to charge taxis for racing each other in the downtown busy as hell core? What I think you might be getting at is that police will only target visible minority vehicles (EX 2 or more vehicles whipping through traffic/ racing on a quiet road and not everyday drivers) but then this would be selective enforcement/ prejudice/ biasness. If its fair to nail racers, then its fair to nail cabbies. I think what you were trying to say (sorry if I put words in yer mouth) was that cops can distinctivly see when 2 or more cars are racing, namely visible vehicle minorities. How would you feel if you were driving around like you allways do and some ****** was whipping around the road in close proximity to you and a cop nails you both for racing when you absoloutly were not? Dude - this is a legit fear for some. So really, how do you determine what is and what is not racing? How does a cop decide? Is it their own personal opinion? We need a standard for this and it must be plain and clear as day, hence the current prob with procecuting suspected racing.
Im working on finding the HTA maximum road horsepower thing, I know it exists cuz I've known ppl in the past who drove muscle cars and recieved papers to have their cars dynoed in suspecion of having maximum or beyond horsepower. So I know there is a max limit on HP, I believe it's 500, once was in the hood of 450+HP, but since ammended.
Basically the government takes a bribe from manufacturers to let their products exceed/not conform with the HTA and or Transport Canada Regulations.
I have a non OEM bug deflector on my hood (only mod to my Daily Driver) is that legal? kidding of course.
Oh and JudgeZ, henry ford raced cars long b4 he ever built a single car, loooo, and he suxxed as a racer
and having every car being the same would not stop racing, thats what the IROC and Miata celebrity racing series, F1, etc.. are all about - its driver VS driver in identicle cars.
Goldwinger - you said something previously about cars not being transport trucks (or similar) and that large vehicles are acceptable for making more noise, well buddy - EVERY vehicle (buses, tractoe trailers, motorbikes, construction equip, etc...) CAN be muffled to very low audiable tones, not just cars and light trucks. Stick a bigger muffler on the larger vehicles and they WILL be much quieter
Golwinger - I read this a while back and forgot the stats exactly, but, didn't the government/opp/news/ or whoever state that since 1999 there have been 38 fatalities involving street racing, and then you went on to say something like 10 ppl die every yr just in the GTA - my question is - who's stats are correct?
Golwinger - (lol , not picking on ya but) seriously, if a police officer is to uphold and inforce the law, then technically wouldnt they be required to charge taxis for racing each other in the downtown busy as hell core? What I think you might be getting at is that police will only target visible minority vehicles (EX 2 or more vehicles whipping through traffic/ racing on a quiet road and not everyday drivers) but then this would be selective enforcement/ prejudice/ biasness. If its fair to nail racers, then its fair to nail cabbies. I think what you were trying to say (sorry if I put words in yer mouth) was that cops can distinctivly see when 2 or more cars are racing, namely visible vehicle minorities. How would you feel if you were driving around like you allways do and some ****** was whipping around the road in close proximity to you and a cop nails you both for racing when you absoloutly were not? Dude - this is a legit fear for some. So really, how do you determine what is and what is not racing? How does a cop decide? Is it their own personal opinion? We need a standard for this and it must be plain and clear as day, hence the current prob with procecuting suspected racing.
Im working on finding the HTA maximum road horsepower thing, I know it exists cuz I've known ppl in the past who drove muscle cars and recieved papers to have their cars dynoed in suspecion of having maximum or beyond horsepower. So I know there is a max limit on HP, I believe it's 500, once was in the hood of 450+HP, but since ammended.
Basically the government takes a bribe from manufacturers to let their products exceed/not conform with the HTA and or Transport Canada Regulations.
I have a non OEM bug deflector on my hood (only mod to my Daily Driver) is that legal? kidding of course.
Oh and JudgeZ, henry ford raced cars long b4 he ever built a single car, loooo, and he suxxed as a racer
and having every car being the same would not stop racing, thats what the IROC and Miata celebrity racing series, F1, etc.. are all about - its driver VS driver in identicle cars.
Inspection booths? You do realize that if your car fails "inspection", that they would have no choice but to pull your plates? If they let you drive off despite safety issues, and something happens, the government could be held liable for not taking a known defective car off the road. Now, once everyone realizes that, how many do you think will risk an "inspection booth"? It certainly won;t be the ones who know their car is illegal.
Big mufflers on trucks? Sure thing, except that most big trucks are also diesels, and even if you make the muffler more restrictive, the diesel rattle will still be there just as loud or louder than any exhaust noise. Besides, Transport Canada dB levels for trucks are not much higher than for cars.
The media tends to report stats that can be a year or more out of date. I didn't say 10 fatalities EVERY year - what I said was fatalities due to street racing are increasing, and that JUST last year in JUST the GTA there were 10 to 12 fatalities that I can recall off the top of my head.
How does a cop determine what is or is not racing? By using the same techniques used to determine if someone is driving carelessly or dangerously - common sense. Don't want to get nailed for racing in traffic? Then don't drive as if you're in a race. There's a big difference between simple maneuvering in traffic and flat-out acceleration runs in traffic with another car doing the same thing beside you.
HTA and "maximum horsepower"? Where do you get this stuff? Are you watching too much X-Files? There are no horsepower restrictions in the HTA or Transport Camada regs. Besides, raw horsepower is ameaningless figure - power to weight ratio is a more meaningful measure if you're looking to restrict horsepower, but they don't do that either.
And government taking bribes from manufacturers so vehicles can disregard Transport Canada or HTA regs? Again, more patent nonsense.
F1 is not a spec series, and aside from prescribed maximums and minimums in specified dimensions, the cars are about as different from one another as could be.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 530
From: Hamilton
Rep Power: 787
Originally Posted by gldwngr
All of those fatalities involved at least two vehicles racing together on publc roads. One involved 3 vehicles racing together, and another involved 4 or 5.
.
.
I think you need to check those stats.
I`ll give you 2 examples of ones I remember in the last year.
Most recent was in Hamilton.
Man walking home from a hockey game late at night, impaired, crosses road 50 yards past and intersection where it goes into a blind curve,
One car speeds (not racing) through the intersection and hits this guy.
Cops said there was no reason or evidence to say that racing was involved, but the media said it was.
Oakville.. Kid in honda with a fart can (one car) blows a stop sign, t bones a car and kills one or more people involved.
victims family happens to be friends with someone at queens park and now it is one of the biggest issues in Ontario.
Originally Posted by gldwngr
Law makers can be removed from office every 4 years. All it takes is for the voters as a whole to turf the incumbant. Law enforcement is always under scrutiny, and bad cops tend to get weeded out quick enough because no good cop wants to get dragged down by a bad one.
\.
Bad cops usually get slapped on the wrist.
Last edited by R/T kota; May 11, 2007 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
