Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

On Fri, 16 May 2008 23:00:29 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Mike hunt wrote:
>> Do your own homework ;)
>
>You got it backwards, old man. It's up to you to back your own claims.
>
>Jeff

Haw, good luck on that. The primary source for all of Mike's
information is his rectum.

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote

>> That kinda fuks up your "trust the manual" philosophy that you give such
>> a
>> hard time to others about.
>
> Yup. It does.
>
> It comes down to: do you trust the car company?
>
> It's been shown that we can't even trust Toyota. WTF.

Exactly..its sad, but I really expect no different...its only a damn car
company, fer krist's sake.

>> And with that said, you should never say another goddamn word when
>> someone
>> questions a Honda "Maintenance Minder" schedule.
>
> temper, temper.

I aint mad at all...I just think its time *you* chilled out with the whole
manual thing when someone asks a question or wants to get a discussion
going.


> So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless?

Are you asking me or telling me what you think I'm gonna do?

Dude...I will change my Honda's oil when the maintenance minder says so, or
about every 5000k...whichever comes first and whatever I feel like doing at
the time.

If the MM comes on, I'll change it for sure, and soon too.

If it doesn't, and 6000k is rolling around, then I will most likely change
the oil myself "early".

It couldn't be any easier, or more simple.

And I have *no* plans on keeping my '08 Accord for more than 10 years *MAX*.

I'm not a kid and will most certainly purchase another car before I have to
worry about getting 200,000 miles on mine.

> No one else can recommend a schedule for you if you want to do it on
> your own.

Well..you can clearly see that the info given to us consumers may not always
be correct.

Therein lies the very reason for the "MM" questions folks have.

Do you understand now?

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote

> would switching to a full synthetic oil stop the sludging?

Won' stop it, but it most definately helps keep it to a minimum.

Pennzoil has a new one that is supposed to *reverse* sludging.

I plan on switching to Mobil 1 as soon as I get thru this first new car
factory oil period.

I wonder how much we would save each year in barrels if everyone used
synthetic oil?

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote

>> if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil
>> analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. so is never
>> checking the simple stuff that can be easily checked come to that, and
>> looking inside the rocker cover is hardly difficult to do.
>
> depends on where the sludge is prone to build up.It might be in a place
> not
> visible without dismantling the motor or borescope inspection.

Amen.


> isn't it common knowledge that oil change intervals depend on a particular
> car's usage? Like if one only uses their car for short trips,or infrequent
> usage,oil/filter should be changed -more often- than cars used more
> "fully"?
>
> IMO,an auto manual's procedures are based on AVERAGE use/average
> conditions,not extremes either way;heavier or lighter use.
>
> That's all the manufacturer/engineer can reliably provide.
> After that,it's the end user and their knowledgeable mechanics that must
> make a determination based on the particulars.
> Otherwise,it's just a guessing game.
>
> More frequent oil/filter changes may be playing on the safe side,at a
> higher cost.It's a trade-off.

Well said, and excellent post.

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote

> On Fri, 16 May 2008 18:33:02 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>>> So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless?
>>>
>>> No one else can recommend a schedule for you if you want to do it on
>>> your own.
>>
>> if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil
>> analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded.
>
>
> WHY THE would I pay for an 'oil analysis' that costs more than
> CHANGING THE FRIGGING OIL?!?!?!

Dude....you got that right.

> Dude, you make less sense as you go along!

Heh...no .

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote

> On Thu, 15 May 2008 20:22:34 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>>> Hitler. There, I lose. Moron. No go away and bullshit someone else with
>>> your 'knowledge'.
>>
>> oh please, make the pain go away.
>
>
> I could give you a cyanide capsule and a Luger...

He'd have to read the manual first.

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Badidea?
 

On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:27:06 -0400, Polfus wrote:


> And I have *no* plans on keeping my '08 Accord for more than 10 years
> *MAX*.
>
> I'm not a kid and will most certainly purchase another car before I have
> to worry about getting 200,000 miles on mine.

I used to get a new car every two-three years, not entirely by choice!
In 1980 I bought a Corolla SR5 Coupe. I liked it and kept it 6 years and
244,000 miles. It's replacement was the 'hachiroku' (1985 Corolla GTS
hatch) Magnificent car. Still in my backyard with 259,000 waiting for the
rust work to get done. I have an '05 Scion tC coupe I bought in '06, and
I like that car too.

Add to that an '88 Supra with ~200,000 miles I picked up for $600 4 years
ago, an '89 Mazda 626 in mint condition for $150, and an '89 Subaru Coupe
for winter driving. And I change the oil on all of them at 3,000 miles!
The Scion gets ~7,000 miles a year, the Supra ~10,000, the Mazda ~12,000
and the Subaru ~6,000. I change the oil on the Supra and the Subaru when
they get parked for the season, then I drain that and put in fresh oil
when they come back into service. The Scion gets synthetic every 4,500.

All in all, cheap insurance. I wish I knew what moonbeam has against
changing oil.

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Badidea?
 

On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:30:44 -0400, Polfus wrote:

> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote
>
>> would switching to a full synthetic oil stop the sludging?
>
> Won' stop it, but it most definately helps keep it to a minimum.
>
> Pennzoil has a new one that is supposed to *reverse* sludging.
>
> I plan on switching to Mobil 1 as soon as I get thru this first new car
> factory oil period.
>
> I wonder how much we would save each year in barrels if everyone used
> synthetic oil?
>
> Peace,
> Polfus

Good question. It also depends on the formulation. Mobil One is, I
believe a "Full" synthetic. I have been using Castrol Syntec (I've been
using Castrol GTX for >25 years) but I recently found out it is not a
full synthetic, but is made from by-products from the refining process,
so it is based on dino oil. No one really seems to be able to tell me the
difference. I guess from looking around that a true synthetic breaks down
less that a dino based synthetic, and is more 'slippery'. But that's from
websties, nothing official.

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Badidea?
 

On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:38:08 -0400, Polfus wrote:

>>>> Hitler. There, I lose. Moron. No go away and bullshit someone else
>>>> with your 'knowledge'.
>>>
>>> oh please, make the pain go away.
>>
>>
>> I could give you a cyanide capsule and a Luger...
>
> He'd have to read the manual first.

1. Place cyanide capsule in mouth and bite down
2. Place Luger to head and pull trigger.

NOTE: *DO NOT* reverse this procedure!

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

In article <lMEXj.115$Uf1.50@trndny08>,
hachiroku ?+O+A+m+/? <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:

> > I wonder how much we would save each year in barrels if everyone used
> > synthetic oil?
> >
> > Peace,
> > Polfus
>
> Good question. It also depends on the formulation. Mobil One is, I
> believe a "Full" synthetic.

Take a closer look.

The Mobil 1 that's on the shelves today bears little resemblance to the
Mobil 1 that was introduced, when--30+ years ago?

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote

> The Mobil 1 that's on the shelves today bears little resemblance to the
> Mobil 1 that was introduced, when--30+ years ago?

Help me out here...whats the difference?

I haven't looked recently..so please do tell.

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Badidea?
 

On Sat, 17 May 2008 17:15:02 -0400, Polfus wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote
>
>> The Mobil 1 that's on the shelves today bears little resemblance to the
>> Mobil 1 that was introduced, when--30+ years ago?
>
> Help me out here...whats the difference?
>
> I haven't looked recently..so please do tell.
>
> Peace,
> Polfus

If you read my response to you, there isn't a lot of info about the
difference. Of course, I didn't spend a lot of time looking.

Or, are you just sticking it to Mike...

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

"hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒã‚¯" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote

> On Sat, 17 May 2008 17:15:02 -0400, Polfus wrote:
>
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote
>>
>>> The Mobil 1 that's on the shelves today bears little resemblance to the
>>> Mobil 1 that was introduced, when--30+ years ago?
>>
>> Help me out here...whats the difference?
>>
>> I haven't looked recently..so please do tell.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Polfus
>
> If you read my response to you, there isn't a lot of info about the
> difference. Of course, I didn't spend a lot of time looking.
>
> Or, are you just sticking it to Mike...

I seriously want to know what he thinks the difference is.

Peace,
Polfus

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <lMEXj.115$Uf1.50@trndny08>,
> hachiroku ?+O+A+m+/? <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:
>
>>> I wonder how much we would save each year in barrels if everyone used
>>> synthetic oil?
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Polfus
>> Good question. It also depends on the formulation. Mobil One is, I
>> believe a "Full" synthetic.
>
> Take a closer look.
>
> The Mobil 1 that's on the shelves today bears little resemblance to the
> Mobil 1 that was introduced, when--30+ years ago?
>


indeed.

in short, there are three types of "synthetic". group v, ester based,
group iv, olefin based, and group iii, highly refined mineral oils.

most modern "synthetics" are group iii, the others being much too
expensive. and utterly irrelevant if they're not properly used, i.e.
discarded after only 4500 miles!

Re: Plan on driving a new car on a 3000mile highway trip. Bad idea?
 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:64CdnURsH81SqLPVnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <482dd3e9$0$30525$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>>> "Polfus" <nostringscouldsecureyou@thestation> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Well, my point is that the sludging occurred when following the
>>>>> factory recommended interval. Then it came out: y'all weren't
>>>>> changing your oil often enough. Then it all came out: Toyota
>>>>> screwed up in the design of that engine.
>>>> That kinda fuks up your "trust the manual" philosophy that you give
>>>> such a hard time to others about.
>>> Yup. It does.
>>>
>>> It comes down to: do you trust the car company?
>>>
>>> It's been shown that we can't even trust Toyota.
>> that's not strictly true. it's the manual "as revised". each time a
>> tsb is issued, it's what's in the tsb that prevails. just like a
>> service pack or software update for your computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>> WTF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> If we can't trust the factory engineer recommendations from Toyota,
>>>>> then it's in our own hands to determine what a comfortable interval
>>>>> would be to try to eliminate such problems.
>>>> And with that said, you should never say another goddamn word when
>>>> someone questions a Honda "Maintenance Minder" schedule.
>>> temper, temper.
>>>
>>> So you're of a mind to do it on your own schedule, then, regardless?
>>>
>>> No one else can recommend a schedule for you if you want to do it on
>>> your own.
>> if you don't want to follow the manual's service schedule, do oil
>> analysis. all this blind gut stuff is utterly retarded. so is never
>> checking the simple stuff that can be easily checked come to that, and
>> looking inside the rocker cover is hardly difficult to do.
>
> depends on where the sludge is prone to build up.It might be in a place not
> visible without dismantling the motor or borescope inspection.
>> as for toyota sludging, it wasn't /every/ toyota that did it, just a
>> very small subset of users that would literally drive around the
>> block, then stop. repeatedly. if the oil never reached operating
>> temperature but was constantly loaded with condensates, i'm sure
>> pretty much any car would be susceptible. and you then have to ask,
>> to what degree does the engineer have to anticipate statistical
>> outliers?
>>
>
> isn't it common knowledge that oil change intervals depend on a particular
> car's usage? Like if one only uses their car for short trips,or infrequent
> usage,oil/filter should be changed -more often- than cars used more
> "fully"?
>
> IMO,an auto manual's procedures are based on AVERAGE use/average
> conditions,not extremes either way;heavier or lighter use.

that's right - and most manuals have two schedules: normal usage and
"severe". with those, you try to provide for what is statistically most
common. but there are always a few statistical outliers and you simply
cannot economically allow for them all.

the famous oil sludge problem for instance is i think only "famous"
because it was documented on the web. i've seen situations like that a
couple of times in my past, and neither have been toyotas, so while that
story may be dramatic, it's not representative of toyota in particular.



>
> That's all the manufacturer/engineer can reliably provide.
> After that,it's the end user and their knowledgeable mechanics that must
> make a determination based on the particulars.
> Otherwise,it's just a guessing game.
>
> More frequent oil/filter changes may be playing on the safe side,at a
> higher cost.It's a trade-off.
>


again, who cares about statistical outliers? you /could/ provide racing
grade "dry" lubrication for all engines, with a 200 liter oil tank,
marine grade large and small particulate filters, and computerized
on-board chromatography... that should pretty much cover all usage
scenarios, but it's not reasonable for all but a literal handful of
users, and even then, they are the types that would still have problems
through ignorance and neglect.