Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>> 1) Toyota
>> 2) Honda
>> 3) Hyundai
>> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
> of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.

Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.

IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.

I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
nearly 7 years.

Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.

Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
"midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.

Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.

Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>> 1) Toyota
>> 2) Honda
>> 3) Hyundai
>> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
> of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.

Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.

IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.

I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
nearly 7 years.

Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.

Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
"midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.

Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.

Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:329Ag.14787$PO.7806@dukeread03...
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:uH8Ag.3649$8v.1563@trnddc05...
>> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>> 1) Toyota
>> 2) Honda
>> 3) Hyundai
>> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
> of compared to anything Japaneese or American.
>
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.

Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.

IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.

I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
nearly 7 years.

Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.

Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
"midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.

Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.

Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:

> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>
> 1) Toyota
> 2) Honda
> 3) Hyundai
> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)


Make that:
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:

> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>
> 1) Toyota
> 2) Honda
> 3) Hyundai
> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)


Make that:
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:

> My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>
> 1) Toyota
> 2) Honda
> 3) Hyundai
> 4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)


Make that:
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:

>
> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>
> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.

I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
prices have put that one to bed.

Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
want another trip down memory lane.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:

>
> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>
> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.

I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
prices have put that one to bed.

Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
want another trip down memory lane.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:

>
> Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>
> IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.

I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
prices have put that one to bed.

Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
want another trip down memory lane.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>
>
>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>>1) Toyota
>>2) Honda
>>3) Hyundai
>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Make that:
> 1) Toyota-GM
> 2) Honda
> 3) Ford
>

An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.

I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>
>
>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>>1) Toyota
>>2) Honda
>>3) Hyundai
>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Make that:
> 1) Toyota-GM
> 2) Honda
> 3) Ford
>

An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.

I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>
>
>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>
>>1) Toyota
>>2) Honda
>>3) Hyundai
>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>
>
>
> Make that:
> 1) Toyota-GM
> 2) Honda
> 3) Ford
>

An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.

I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage?

Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage?

Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
> Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
> mileage?

Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John