Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Sure, if you want a stripped Aveo without air conditioning, CD player or
anything else you can buy the sub $10k special. Almost nobody does.

John




Mike Hunter wrote:
> Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995
>
> mike
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:YJdAg.7816$oz.2741@trnddc07...
>
>>JohnR66 wrote:
>>
>>>Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
>>
>>Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
>>failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
>>
>>Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
>>Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
>>Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Sure, if you want a stripped Aveo without air conditioning, CD player or
anything else you can buy the sub $10k special. Almost nobody does.

John




Mike Hunter wrote:
> Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995
>
> mike
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:YJdAg.7816$oz.2741@trnddc07...
>
>>JohnR66 wrote:
>>
>>>Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
>>
>>Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
>>failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
>>
>>Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
>>Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
>>Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Sure, if you want a stripped Aveo without air conditioning, CD player or
anything else you can buy the sub $10k special. Almost nobody does.

John




Mike Hunter wrote:
> Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995
>
> mike
>
> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:YJdAg.7816$oz.2741@trnddc07...
>
>>JohnR66 wrote:
>>
>>>Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
>>
>>Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
>>failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
>>
>>Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
>>Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
>>Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:34:41 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:

>Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth in
>Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
>Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to emulate
>Europe? ;)
>
>mike hunt

Here is a question for you, Mike. What is the second richest country
in the world that doesn't have nationalized health care?








>
>
>"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googleg roups.com...
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> Why do you think gas cost
>>> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>>
>> In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:34:41 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:

>Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth in
>Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
>Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to emulate
>Europe? ;)
>
>mike hunt

Here is a question for you, Mike. What is the second richest country
in the world that doesn't have nationalized health care?








>
>
>"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googleg roups.com...
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> Why do you think gas cost
>>> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>>
>> In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:34:41 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:

>Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth in
>Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
>Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to emulate
>Europe? ;)
>
>mike hunt

Here is a question for you, Mike. What is the second richest country
in the world that doesn't have nationalized health care?








>
>
>"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googleg roups.com...
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> Why do you think gas cost
>>> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>>
>> In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>>
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154659196.351860.227960@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> Taxation on petrol has prompted new technology to go away from petrol
> and thus promoted smaller cars, bigger trains and better economy
>
> US could do well emulating Europe
>
> Europe has been improving a lot its transport system over the last
> decades and not the least because of controlled taxation by taxing
> petrol and promoting alternatives
>
> Market economy with lots of interventions by the governments in health
> care and unemployment benefits has created a very good balance and a
> strong middle class
>
> The high unemployment rates are mainly in former east areas and results
> of former centralised controled governments
>
> The production per manhours is much higher in Europe than in the US
>
> The norm is for 6 weeks paid vacations, many countries 35 hour work
> weeks, not unusual around 50 year pension schemes
>
> The underground economy where people pay each other without letting the
> government know is also quite high so the overall economy is much
> better than the official figures show
>
> Unemployed people, people on holidays, medical benefits or pensions are
> often working and paid with black money giving extra strenght to the
> economy
>
> The US could learn a lot from Europe but they do not because they think
> they know it all

Let me guess - English is your second language? If not, you should find
your high school English teacher and sue her for not doing her job.



> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth
>> in
>> Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
>> Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to
>> emulate
>> Europe? ;)
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>> "Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>> > Mike Hunter wrote:
>> >> Why do you think gas cost
>> >> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>> >
>> > In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>> >
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154659196.351860.227960@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> Taxation on petrol has prompted new technology to go away from petrol
> and thus promoted smaller cars, bigger trains and better economy
>
> US could do well emulating Europe
>
> Europe has been improving a lot its transport system over the last
> decades and not the least because of controlled taxation by taxing
> petrol and promoting alternatives
>
> Market economy with lots of interventions by the governments in health
> care and unemployment benefits has created a very good balance and a
> strong middle class
>
> The high unemployment rates are mainly in former east areas and results
> of former centralised controled governments
>
> The production per manhours is much higher in Europe than in the US
>
> The norm is for 6 weeks paid vacations, many countries 35 hour work
> weeks, not unusual around 50 year pension schemes
>
> The underground economy where people pay each other without letting the
> government know is also quite high so the overall economy is much
> better than the official figures show
>
> Unemployed people, people on holidays, medical benefits or pensions are
> often working and paid with black money giving extra strenght to the
> economy
>
> The US could learn a lot from Europe but they do not because they think
> they know it all

Let me guess - English is your second language? If not, you should find
your high school English teacher and sue her for not doing her job.



> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth
>> in
>> Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
>> Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to
>> emulate
>> Europe? ;)
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>> "Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>> > Mike Hunter wrote:
>> >> Why do you think gas cost
>> >> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>> >
>> > In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>> >
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154659196.351860.227960@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> Taxation on petrol has prompted new technology to go away from petrol
> and thus promoted smaller cars, bigger trains and better economy
>
> US could do well emulating Europe
>
> Europe has been improving a lot its transport system over the last
> decades and not the least because of controlled taxation by taxing
> petrol and promoting alternatives
>
> Market economy with lots of interventions by the governments in health
> care and unemployment benefits has created a very good balance and a
> strong middle class
>
> The high unemployment rates are mainly in former east areas and results
> of former centralised controled governments
>
> The production per manhours is much higher in Europe than in the US
>
> The norm is for 6 weeks paid vacations, many countries 35 hour work
> weeks, not unusual around 50 year pension schemes
>
> The underground economy where people pay each other without letting the
> government know is also quite high so the overall economy is much
> better than the official figures show
>
> Unemployed people, people on holidays, medical benefits or pensions are
> often working and paid with black money giving extra strenght to the
> economy
>
> The US could learn a lot from Europe but they do not because they think
> they know it all

Let me guess - English is your second language? If not, you should find
your high school English teacher and sue her for not doing her job.



> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth
>> in
>> Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
>> Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to
>> emulate
>> Europe? ;)
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>>
>> "Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>> > Mike Hunter wrote:
>> >> Why do you think gas cost
>> >> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>> >
>> > In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>> >
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
>
> I'm not a car designer by any means, but Ford should stop doing silly things
> like with the Focus: Why the hell keep the performance engine out of the ZX3
> and only in the sedan? Compare the tired styling of the Focus to the modern
> look of the foreign offerings! The same with GM's Cobalt. Too much leftover
> styling from the Cavalier. As quoted from Edmund's review, "Cobalt's design
> seems rather bland and its materials low-grade". The Japanese vehicles tend
> to put technology in to engines of even the lowest priced models, such as
> VVT for good performance from smaller engines that get great gas mileage.
>
> John
>
>

Toyota and Honda pull off major redesigns of their big selling cars
every 3-6 years. Once upon a time, the US companies INVENTED the idea
of constant design updates to keep the vehicles interesting. Somehow in
the 1970s they lost the ability to do so. One could blame government
regulations, but how then do you explain the fact that the Japanese pull
it off like clockwork while selling cars all over the world in left and
right side control configurations as well?

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
>
> I'm not a car designer by any means, but Ford should stop doing silly things
> like with the Focus: Why the hell keep the performance engine out of the ZX3
> and only in the sedan? Compare the tired styling of the Focus to the modern
> look of the foreign offerings! The same with GM's Cobalt. Too much leftover
> styling from the Cavalier. As quoted from Edmund's review, "Cobalt's design
> seems rather bland and its materials low-grade". The Japanese vehicles tend
> to put technology in to engines of even the lowest priced models, such as
> VVT for good performance from smaller engines that get great gas mileage.
>
> John
>
>

Toyota and Honda pull off major redesigns of their big selling cars
every 3-6 years. Once upon a time, the US companies INVENTED the idea
of constant design updates to keep the vehicles interesting. Somehow in
the 1970s they lost the ability to do so. One could blame government
regulations, but how then do you explain the fact that the Japanese pull
it off like clockwork while selling cars all over the world in left and
right side control configurations as well?

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

JohnR66 wrote:
>
> I'm not a car designer by any means, but Ford should stop doing silly things
> like with the Focus: Why the hell keep the performance engine out of the ZX3
> and only in the sedan? Compare the tired styling of the Focus to the modern
> look of the foreign offerings! The same with GM's Cobalt. Too much leftover
> styling from the Cavalier. As quoted from Edmund's review, "Cobalt's design
> seems rather bland and its materials low-grade". The Japanese vehicles tend
> to put technology in to engines of even the lowest priced models, such as
> VVT for good performance from smaller engines that get great gas mileage.
>
> John
>
>

Toyota and Honda pull off major redesigns of their big selling cars
every 3-6 years. Once upon a time, the US companies INVENTED the idea
of constant design updates to keep the vehicles interesting. Somehow in
the 1970s they lost the ability to do so. One could blame government
regulations, but how then do you explain the fact that the Japanese pull
it off like clockwork while selling cars all over the world in left and
right side control configurations as well?

John

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:12:49 -0400, Zeppo wrote:

> My 2005 Santa Fe has had zero problems whatsoever. Fit and finish and
> overall quality just as good as the wife's 2006 Accord.
>
> The only difference might be a *slightly* lower quality of interior
> materials. However the price differential between similar models (even more
> so when you factor in the warranty Hyundai comes with) makes this extremely
> acceptable.
>

Warranty doesn't impress me. Not having to use the warranty impresses me.

Hyundai had some serious problems in previous years with Transmissions.
And when they went, you were without your car for months, as the Tranny's
were hard to get.

Hopefully, they've gotten all of those issues fixed, and the new ones will
be much less likely to need frequent visits to the mechanic, warranty or
no.

Also, as to fit and finish, the Hynundais do use lower tolerances to allow
for less expensive assembly. There are larger gaps in places like hood and
trunk. It all works out OK, as they are not noticeable (generally) unless
you are looking for them, but the fit and finish of a Honda is still second
to none.

Above all, drive what you like. If it does what you need, and lasts, then
it was a good buy!

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com
http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 8/4/2006 12:14:19 AM
Tobacconist Brick and Mortar Database: http://bam.tobaccocellar.org/

"For thy sake, tobacco, I would do anything but die."

-Charles Lamb

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:12:49 -0400, Zeppo wrote:

> My 2005 Santa Fe has had zero problems whatsoever. Fit and finish and
> overall quality just as good as the wife's 2006 Accord.
>
> The only difference might be a *slightly* lower quality of interior
> materials. However the price differential between similar models (even more
> so when you factor in the warranty Hyundai comes with) makes this extremely
> acceptable.
>

Warranty doesn't impress me. Not having to use the warranty impresses me.

Hyundai had some serious problems in previous years with Transmissions.
And when they went, you were without your car for months, as the Tranny's
were hard to get.

Hopefully, they've gotten all of those issues fixed, and the new ones will
be much less likely to need frequent visits to the mechanic, warranty or
no.

Also, as to fit and finish, the Hynundais do use lower tolerances to allow
for less expensive assembly. There are larger gaps in places like hood and
trunk. It all works out OK, as they are not noticeable (generally) unless
you are looking for them, but the fit and finish of a Honda is still second
to none.

Above all, drive what you like. If it does what you need, and lasts, then
it was a good buy!

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com
http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 8/4/2006 12:14:19 AM
Tobacconist Brick and Mortar Database: http://bam.tobaccocellar.org/

"For thy sake, tobacco, I would do anything but die."

-Charles Lamb

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:12:49 -0400, Zeppo wrote:

> My 2005 Santa Fe has had zero problems whatsoever. Fit and finish and
> overall quality just as good as the wife's 2006 Accord.
>
> The only difference might be a *slightly* lower quality of interior
> materials. However the price differential between similar models (even more
> so when you factor in the warranty Hyundai comes with) makes this extremely
> acceptable.
>

Warranty doesn't impress me. Not having to use the warranty impresses me.

Hyundai had some serious problems in previous years with Transmissions.
And when they went, you were without your car for months, as the Tranny's
were hard to get.

Hopefully, they've gotten all of those issues fixed, and the new ones will
be much less likely to need frequent visits to the mechanic, warranty or
no.

Also, as to fit and finish, the Hynundais do use lower tolerances to allow
for less expensive assembly. There are larger gaps in places like hood and
trunk. It all works out OK, as they are not noticeable (generally) unless
you are looking for them, but the fit and finish of a Honda is still second
to none.

Above all, drive what you like. If it does what you need, and lasts, then
it was a good buy!

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlavigne@hits-buffalo.com
http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 8/4/2006 12:14:19 AM
Tobacconist Brick and Mortar Database: http://bam.tobaccocellar.org/

"For thy sake, tobacco, I would do anything but die."

-Charles Lamb