Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Why do you think gas cost
> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?

In order to promote good transport systems and it is working

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Why do you think gas cost
> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?

In order to promote good transport systems and it is working

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Why do you think gas cost
> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?

In order to promote good transport systems and it is working

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vhpAg.14872$PO.7627@dukeread03...
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>>
>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>>2) Honda
>>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make that:
>>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Ford
>>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>>
>>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
>>> higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>
>
> What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
> before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
> the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
> to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
> those are no biggie.


They used a lot of Delco electrics in those, and they just aren't as durable
as Denso.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vhpAg.14872$PO.7627@dukeread03...
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>>
>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>>2) Honda
>>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make that:
>>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Ford
>>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>>
>>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
>>> higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>
>
> What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
> before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
> the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
> to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
> those are no biggie.


They used a lot of Delco electrics in those, and they just aren't as durable
as Denso.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vhpAg.14872$PO.7627@dukeread03...
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:2DmAg.3059$sy2.2356@trndny01...
>>
>> "John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:7BdAg.7811$oz.4764@trnddc07...
>>> Hachiroku wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:30 +0000, John Horner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) Toyota
>>>>>2) Honda
>>>>>3) Hyundai
>>>>>4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make that:
>>>> 1) Toyota-GM
>>>> 2) Honda
>>>> 3) Ford
>>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
>>> with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
>>> long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
>>> on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
>>> at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
>>>
>>> I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
>>> higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>
>
> What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
> before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
> the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
> to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
> those are no biggie.


They used a lot of Delco electrics in those, and they just aren't as durable
as Denso.

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1opAg.9900$j9.9786@trnddc02...
> Hachiroku wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>> They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
>> just time for the
>> proposal and the acceptance.
>>
>> As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
>> And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
>> versa!!!!
>> (That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
>> more cheaply."
>> NOT a good idea!!!)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got into
> that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got into
> it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for the
> output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been able
> to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along with
> Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly because
> GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can only seem
> to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of models at any
> given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Hmmm....all the Vibes I've seen were made in Cambridge, ONT, along with all
the Matrix'.
I know the Tacomas are made there! Had to pull off the shipping tags!


>
> Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
> model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes Toyota
> run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!
>
> That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM. Toyota
> management is too smart for such a move.
>
>
>
> John
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1opAg.9900$j9.9786@trnddc02...
> Hachiroku wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>> They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
>> just time for the
>> proposal and the acceptance.
>>
>> As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
>> And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
>> versa!!!!
>> (That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
>> more cheaply."
>> NOT a good idea!!!)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got into
> that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got into
> it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for the
> output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been able
> to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along with
> Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly because
> GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can only seem
> to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of models at any
> given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Hmmm....all the Vibes I've seen were made in Cambridge, ONT, along with all
the Matrix'.
I know the Tacomas are made there! Had to pull off the shipping tags!


>
> Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
> model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes Toyota
> run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!
>
> That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM. Toyota
> management is too smart for such a move.
>
>
>
> John
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1opAg.9900$j9.9786@trnddc02...
> Hachiroku wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
>> in California.
>> They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
>> the Prizm.
>> They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
>> just time for the
>> proposal and the acceptance.
>>
>> As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
>> And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
>> versa!!!!
>> (That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
>> more cheaply."
>> NOT a good idea!!!)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got into
> that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got into
> it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for the
> output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been able
> to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along with
> Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly because
> GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can only seem
> to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of models at any
> given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Hmmm....all the Vibes I've seen were made in Cambridge, ONT, along with all
the Matrix'.
I know the Tacomas are made there! Had to pull off the shipping tags!


>
> Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
> model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes Toyota
> run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!
>
> That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM. Toyota
> management is too smart for such a move.
>
>
>
> John
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth in
Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to emulate
Europe? ;)

mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Why do you think gas cost
>> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>
> In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth in
Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to emulate
Europe? ;)

mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Why do you think gas cost
>> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>
> In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Excessive taxation slows economic growth. Hence the poor economic growth in
Europe, over the past ten years or so, and the high unemployment rates.
Free medical is anything but free. Surly you do not want the US to emulate
Europe? ;)

mike hunt


"Gosi" <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154635278.346045.298700@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Why do you think gas cost
>> $6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax?
>
> In order to promote good transport systems and it is working
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Build cars like the Mustang and Corvette and sell them for $10,000 LOL


mike hunt


"enginerd477" <keeneeng@corning.com> wrote in message
news:1154606683.637705.184110@s13g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> JohnR66 wrote:
>> > Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>> > IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
>> I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
>> under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
>> single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
>> prices have put that one to bed.
>> Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
>> want another trip down memory lane.
>
> John
> I was wondering what you think GM and Ford should be putting in their
> cars or doing to them to give them more of a youth's appeal. You
> looking for more sportier with wings and ground effects? i'm not
> trying to bash you, i am asking because i am an engineering student
> whom is trying to pursue a career in the automotive industry and i
> would like to hear yours and anyone elses opinions on what you think
> the American car manufacturers need to do with their cars to make them
> more suitable for the public so that they can stay in the top 3. all
> opinion are greatly appreciated, thanks.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Build cars like the Mustang and Corvette and sell them for $10,000 LOL


mike hunt


"enginerd477" <keeneeng@corning.com> wrote in message
news:1154606683.637705.184110@s13g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> JohnR66 wrote:
>> > Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>> > IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
>> I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
>> under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
>> single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
>> prices have put that one to bed.
>> Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
>> want another trip down memory lane.
>
> John
> I was wondering what you think GM and Ford should be putting in their
> cars or doing to them to give them more of a youth's appeal. You
> looking for more sportier with wings and ground effects? i'm not
> trying to bash you, i am asking because i am an engineering student
> whom is trying to pursue a career in the automotive industry and i
> would like to hear yours and anyone elses opinions on what you think
> the American car manufacturers need to do with their cars to make them
> more suitable for the public so that they can stay in the top 3. all
> opinion are greatly appreciated, thanks.
>

Re: Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
 

Build cars like the Mustang and Corvette and sell them for $10,000 LOL


mike hunt


"enginerd477" <keeneeng@corning.com> wrote in message
news:1154606683.637705.184110@s13g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> JohnR66 wrote:
>> > Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
>> > IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
>> I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
>> under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
>> single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
>> prices have put that one to bed.
>> Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
>> want another trip down memory lane.
>
> John
> I was wondering what you think GM and Ford should be putting in their
> cars or doing to them to give them more of a youth's appeal. You
> looking for more sportier with wings and ground effects? i'm not
> trying to bash you, i am asking because i am an engineering student
> whom is trying to pursue a career in the automotive industry and i
> would like to hear yours and anyone elses opinions on what you think
> the American car manufacturers need to do with their cars to make them
> more suitable for the public so that they can stay in the top 3. all
> opinion are greatly appreciated, thanks.
>