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The SS RUNS between 14.4 and 14.8 stock. THEY DO NOT RUN 14.0

As for the comment about JDM cars being more reliable that is not exactly true as there are some Domestics that are very solid cars and much more dependable than alot of Asian cars. There a few but not a lot!

How can you say the cobalt is not reliable? It is new and as of yet I have not heard any bad stories about it.

How many 86 Civics do you see rolling around? I still see all kinds of 86 K cars though

I own both domestics (z28) and japanese cars (honda accord). Honda are very well made products and the japanese auto industry has proven the reliability of their products since arriving in north america. However, to apply the blanket statement that all domestic cars are unreliable is like saying there is no such thing as a fast japanese car. Yes, domestic cars in the 80's - 90's were not as reliable as their japanese counterparts. Domestic cars still are not as reliable as japanese cars, but the gap has closed considerably. The cobalt is a clean slate design that shares very little with the cavalier.

From the march 16, 2006 consumer reports magazine: "...On average, Asian vehicles are still by far the most reliable, but their rate of improvement has slowed".

In the most recent survey, domestic manufacturers had an average problem rate of 18 problems per 100 vehicles. The rate has been about the same since 2003. European makes, which the magazine says "have recently been the most unreliable overall," remained steady at 21 problems per 100 vehicles.

In fact, the most unreliable car maker out there is Porsche, which ranked last place at #36. If it were an american company, you would all call it a POS....

I think porsche just is'nt keeping up with the times, and also I think they are shifting their target market, which is understandable. Still, theyve fell a long way from the 80's 944 series :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8mike

I own both domestics (z28) and japanese cars (honda accord). Honda are very well made products and the japanese auto industry has proven the reliability of their products since arriving in north america. However, to apply the blanket statement that all domestic cars are unreliable is like saying there is no such thing as a fast japanese car. Yes, domestic cars in the 80's - 90's were not as reliable as their japanese counterparts. Domestic cars still are not as reliable as japanese cars, but the gap has closed considerably. The cobalt is a clean slate design that shares nothing very little with the cavalier.

From the march 16, 2006 consumer reports magazine: "...On average, Asian vehicles are still by far the most reliable, but their rate of improvement has slowed".

In the most recent survey, domestic manufacturers had an average problem rate of 18 problems per 100 vehicles. The rate has been about the same since 2003. European makes, which the magazine says "have recently been the most unreliable overall," remained steady at 21 problems per 100 vehicles.

In fact, the most unreliable car maker out there is Porsche, which ranked last place at #36. If it were an american company, you would all call it a POS....

Very well said!! I will agree with you 100% I think the contraversy in this thread got the better of me. I do believe that the american car manufacturers have improved dramatically, Maintenance cost are equal if not more in japanese cars then there american counter parts. The only unfortunate part of this is that General Motors has been unsuccessful in coming out with new and better designed cars. I think when and if GM decides to scrap the multi line cars (ie Chevy Cobolt, Pontiac Pursuit) and concentrate on single cars they will be a better car manufacturer. More time is needed on innovative products. look at Chryslers car line up, all there cars look amazing, 20 inch factory rims, Hemi engine, etc etc, you can see there more oriented towards what the public wants. it seems GM is interested in trying to maintain a mainstream vehicle that they never will. Most car buyers are leasing there vehicles, and every 3 years they want something new and exciting. GM hasn't really done that yet. You've made a good point V8MIKE. Thanks

I know that is sacriligous to say, but the 944's were in many ways superior to the 911's. At one point, front engine/rear drive was the direction that porsche was heading down, but the 911 faithful would have had a fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky_kid

I think porsche just is'nt keeping up with the times, and also I think they are shifting their target market, which is understandable. Still, theyve fell a long way from the 80's 944 series :(

Quote:

And if you like to drive a car that has the same amount of torque as the alternator makes go ahead and drive an import.

I may be mistaken, but as far as I know the alternator does NOT make torque. the starter makes torque, maybe thats what you meant, maybe not, but still, DUHHRRRRRR lol

yeah it has torque cause its spinning

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8mike

No kidding I think the 944's were some of the best cars porsche ever produced, :smilie_da Especially in comparison to the 911's of the same period, which im pretty sure had not been redesigned since 1974 or something like that. Yet it was the 911's that got all the attention..

V8mike said it well. Domestic auto makers are also crippled with trade rates and ton of other costs and union problems asian brands do not face. This will abviously effect the product and funds for reaserch. I have never had problems with american (GM) specifically. Sure there are some problems with interior plastics breaking and such. But for the most part GM builds long lasting bullet proof motors. To name a few:

3800 and 3.8 all years
All small block chevys are very reliable as well as the big blocks.
GMs 60 degree lineup 2.8 , 3.1,3.4

i agree the 3.8L is GM's most reliable motor. My first car was a 84 Pontiac Bonneville 3.8L V6 Carb.

cobalt >>>> civic

I unno what u guys are talken about. I got a cobalt Ls (2.2 Non supercharged), and I beat stock, modded and HEAVILY modded civics all the time, even though the only mod i have is SR intake. Don't be haten on the cobalt. It gets me attention every direction I look. Cop's pull me over asking me what car this is? and they usually leave telling me it looks amazing. Even when I park my car at work or if I park it in a parking lot, I see that alotta ppl stare at my car (in a good way)
For the person who started this thread... claiming he beat a Cobalt SS/SC with a 1990 modded hatchback civic. (which is prob. :bs: to start with). I challenge you with my 2.2 almost stock Non-supercharged Cobalt. Because I'm pretty sure I'll beat you like a beat the others.
I'm not haten on the civic, I have one myself. But if you :bs: saying you can beat one. I'll prove you wrong.

Later

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowbalt

oh civic boy better step up to the plate :owns:

Beating heavily modded civics? Your hanging with the wrong crowd.
I get rapped, literaly up the ASS by modded civics. They are the easiest cars to do an engine swap. Hands down it takes a weekend(drunk).

A heavily modded civic could also rape an SS. No question. I'm on my 2nd domestic and probably wouldn't own an import, but the simplicity to work on them is just incredible.

I bet a ef civic with just a dohc zc would hand your ass to you.

Now I never talk just because I know my car is slow, even though I've spend my fair share of time working on it. But until I actually start doing some "decent" numbers then I can enjoy the world of talking, I sugest you do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowbalt

I'd like to see some pictures of your car.
is this what your car looks like??
http://www.autobytel.com/images/prev...balt-front.jpg
http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/...13893535036125

I think it is quite obvious that post reaked of pure bs, his idea of racing is probally flooring it from every red light hes stopped at and pretending the car beside him was racing.