Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

"W Bittle" <wbittle1@alltel.net>, being of unsound mind, did utter in
news:1068677919.897292@cache6.usenetserver.com:

>
>> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
>> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.
>>
> There are some American vehicles that do perform well with respect
> to
> overall quality, but they are few. What bothers me is that Toyota is
> looking more at the profit margen. It seems every time a company
> starts looking more at that, quality takes a hit in favor of profit.

It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it once more, then did the
same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra. The Integra's mirror housing
is much thicker.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
expensive array of government mandates.

One easy target for cost-cutting is trim and interiors.
1) Interiors are not exposed to the weather
2) Interiors and trim are subject to only the most basic governmental
regulation (other than air-bags)
3) Interiors are increasingly important to consumers as the cars themselves
become so reliable as to become almost appliances
4) Interiors and trim are cheap and quick ways of altering the look and
functionality of cars in ways that do not involve government crash-testing,
emissions certification or other expensive compliance procedures.


--
TeGGeR®

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

"W Bittle" <wbittle1@alltel.net>, being of unsound mind, did utter in
news:1068677919.897292@cache6.usenetserver.com:

>
>> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
>> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.
>>
> There are some American vehicles that do perform well with respect
> to
> overall quality, but they are few. What bothers me is that Toyota is
> looking more at the profit margen. It seems every time a company
> starts looking more at that, quality takes a hit in favor of profit.

It does, yes. Walked past our '99 Tercel today and my wedding ring happened
to hit the plastic mirror body. It made a dreadfully thin-sounding hollow
noise. So I went and tapped it again to hear it once more, then did the
same thing to the mirror on the '91 Integra. The Integra's mirror housing
is much thicker.

I wouldn't necessarily blame the automakers, though. They are under almost
insane pressures to cut costs while satisfying a bewildering and very
expensive array of government mandates.

One easy target for cost-cutting is trim and interiors.
1) Interiors are not exposed to the weather
2) Interiors and trim are subject to only the most basic governmental
regulation (other than air-bags)
3) Interiors are increasingly important to consumers as the cars themselves
become so reliable as to become almost appliances
4) Interiors and trim are cheap and quick ways of altering the look and
functionality of cars in ways that do not involve government crash-testing,
emissions certification or other expensive compliance procedures.


--
TeGGeR®

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

> Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
> UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know what happens when GM and
> UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>

Exactly.

I'm not trying to slag NA automakers, but I think the quality issue has
been pretty well established. I personally cannot think of a NA car that
I would want to own, but I did test drive the Lincoln LS or whatever -
the one that they claim is competition for a 5 Series. It might be if
your only criteria is price. They also make a big deal about one or two
specs that are "better" than the 5er, but drive both cars and you'll
have no problem deciding which is better.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

> Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
> UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know what happens when GM and
> UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>

Exactly.

I'm not trying to slag NA automakers, but I think the quality issue has
been pretty well established. I personally cannot think of a NA car that
I would want to own, but I did test drive the Lincoln LS or whatever -
the one that they claim is competition for a 5 Series. It might be if
your only criteria is price. They also make a big deal about one or two
specs that are "better" than the 5er, but drive both cars and you'll
have no problem deciding which is better.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

> Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
> UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know what happens when GM and
> UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>

Exactly.

I'm not trying to slag NA automakers, but I think the quality issue has
been pretty well established. I personally cannot think of a NA car that
I would want to own, but I did test drive the Lincoln LS or whatever -
the one that they claim is competition for a 5 Series. It might be if
your only criteria is price. They also make a big deal about one or two
specs that are "better" than the 5er, but drive both cars and you'll
have no problem deciding which is better.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

> Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a Fremont, CA
> UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know what happens when GM and
> UAW get together to build a vehicle.
>

Exactly.

I'm not trying to slag NA automakers, but I think the quality issue has
been pretty well established. I personally cannot think of a NA car that
I would want to own, but I did test drive the Lincoln LS or whatever -
the one that they claim is competition for a 5 Series. It might be if
your only criteria is price. They also make a big deal about one or two
specs that are "better" than the 5er, but drive both cars and you'll
have no problem deciding which is better.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
> > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
> > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.

What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.

I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
miles on the car in 14½ months.

Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
a designer.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
> > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
> > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.

What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.

I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
miles on the car in 14½ months.

Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
a designer.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
> > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
> > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.

What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.

I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
miles on the car in 14½ months.

Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
a designer.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:9FBsb.41$ge.18059@read2.cgocable.net,
Tom Burns <tburnz874@hotmail.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> > Well, the Toyota Matrix really isn't a Toyota. It's built in a
> > Fremont, CA UAW plant under a GM/Toyota joint venture. You know
> > what happens when GM and UAW get together to build a vehicle.

What happens is... people such as yourself start regurgitating
bigotry as it has been spoon fed to you.

I bought new a 1990 Geo Prizm and in the subsequent 12 years, put
285,000 miles on it. The ONLY major repair was the automatic
transmission at 180,000 miles and one water pump at 160,000 miles.
Sold the car for $1000. That was a NUMMI built car. Following that
impressive ownership, I replaced the Prizm with a 2003 Corolla...
also a NUMMI built car. So far, the only failure has been a rear
wheel bearing assembly at 15,000 miles (warranty). I have put 31,800
miles on the car in 14½ months.

Someday, DO tour the NUMMI plant like I did. NUMMI builds cars and
trucks per Toyota's blueprint. NUMMI is a builder/assembler.... not
a designer.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

Tom Burns wrote:

> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.


And it appears they dont mind paying for it either, they just want it,
even if it cost a little more in the beginning.
>
>


--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

Tom Burns wrote:

> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.


And it appears they dont mind paying for it either, they just want it,
even if it cost a little more in the beginning.
>
>


--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

Tom Burns wrote:

> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.


And it appears they dont mind paying for it either, they just want it,
even if it cost a little more in the beginning.
>
>


--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

Tom Burns wrote:

> Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
> reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.


And it appears they dont mind paying for it either, they just want it,
even if it cost a little more in the beginning.
>
>


--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

W Bittle wrote:

>>Yes. American automakers need to stop making crap. For some strange
>>reason people seem drawn to quality, service and value.
>>
>
> There are some American vehicles that do perform well with respect to
> overall quality, but they are few. What bothers me is that Toyota is looking
> more at the profit margen. It seems every time a company starts looking more
> at that, quality takes a hit in favor of profit.


Not so, quality is what they are know for and its what is driving it to
the #2 spot. Its actually a trademark almost, Toyotas are know the world
over as being reliable.


--








SENATOR ZELL MILLER DEMOCRAT OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent
conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for
re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller
said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and
grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he
wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with
governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will
vote for President Bush in 2004."