Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:y-ednRjVQ8Ph7ymiRVn-vg@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article <hJWsb.9799$nz.4741@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
> 1chip-state 1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > Nobody of experience gives Consumer Reports much credence. They
> > are handy ... but not much more. I've seen them print laughable
> > reviews while other times they get it close to right. That
> > publication should never make up your mind.
> >
> > The back door tours I got of GM Southgate back in '78 was when I
> > had a part time job picking up special deliveries of parts
> > baskets from LAX and running them (often late at night) to the
> > plant. GM Southgate at that time was a shoddy place by any
> > standard. It was soon closed.
> >
> > Take this to the bank, friend .... what you learn in a library is
> > only icing on the cake ... after a factory tour, especially an
> > unguided tour. I also took an unguided tour of Ford's truck
> > assembly plant in Richmond, VA (1989?). Damned JIT delivery.
> > But I didn't let that layover time turn into wasted time. :-)
> > --
> >
> > ~~Philip
>
>
> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
> subscribers.
>
> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
> your usage of Preparation H.

CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
than they deserve.

A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:y-ednRjVQ8Ph7ymiRVn-vg@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article <hJWsb.9799$nz.4741@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
> 1chip-state 1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > Nobody of experience gives Consumer Reports much credence. They
> > are handy ... but not much more. I've seen them print laughable
> > reviews while other times they get it close to right. That
> > publication should never make up your mind.
> >
> > The back door tours I got of GM Southgate back in '78 was when I
> > had a part time job picking up special deliveries of parts
> > baskets from LAX and running them (often late at night) to the
> > plant. GM Southgate at that time was a shoddy place by any
> > standard. It was soon closed.
> >
> > Take this to the bank, friend .... what you learn in a library is
> > only icing on the cake ... after a factory tour, especially an
> > unguided tour. I also took an unguided tour of Ford's truck
> > assembly plant in Richmond, VA (1989?). Damned JIT delivery.
> > But I didn't let that layover time turn into wasted time. :-)
> > --
> >
> > ~~Philip
>
>
> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
> subscribers.
>
> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
> your usage of Preparation H.

CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
than they deserve.

A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In news:y-ednRjVQ8Ph7ymiRVn-vg@comcast.com,
HarrierAWD <harrierawd@giganews.com> being of bellicose mind posted:
> In article <hJWsb.9799$nz.4741@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
> 1chip-state 1@earthlink.net.invalid says...
> >
> > Nobody of experience gives Consumer Reports much credence. They
> > are handy ... but not much more. I've seen them print laughable
> > reviews while other times they get it close to right. That
> > publication should never make up your mind.
> >
> > The back door tours I got of GM Southgate back in '78 was when I
> > had a part time job picking up special deliveries of parts
> > baskets from LAX and running them (often late at night) to the
> > plant. GM Southgate at that time was a shoddy place by any
> > standard. It was soon closed.
> >
> > Take this to the bank, friend .... what you learn in a library is
> > only icing on the cake ... after a factory tour, especially an
> > unguided tour. I also took an unguided tour of Ford's truck
> > assembly plant in Richmond, VA (1989?). Damned JIT delivery.
> > But I didn't let that layover time turn into wasted time. :-)
> > --
> >
> > ~~Philip
>
>
> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
> subscribers.
>
> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
> your usage of Preparation H.

CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
than they deserve.

A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <XO_sb.48$sb4.32@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> ,
josephoberlander@earthlink.net says...
>
>HarrierAWD wrote:
>
>> It's got very low clearance so it's really not designed to go offroad. Its
>> gas tank also hangs dangerously low underneath. Hopefully its AWD system
will
>
>> do OK on beach sand.
>
>Like I said - so close to having a budget vehicle that could compete with
>the Liberty and XTerra. The rest of the car, including the interior are
>perfect for a budget off-road thrasher. Too bad it's not good for off-road
use.
>


Very good point.

Also, I stand corrected on the Honda Element's ground clearance. The Honda's
spec is 6.9", not too shabby. Although I don't like the way the gas tank is
mounted.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <XO_sb.48$sb4.32@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> ,
josephoberlander@earthlink.net says...
>
>HarrierAWD wrote:
>
>> It's got very low clearance so it's really not designed to go offroad. Its
>> gas tank also hangs dangerously low underneath. Hopefully its AWD system
will
>
>> do OK on beach sand.
>
>Like I said - so close to having a budget vehicle that could compete with
>the Liberty and XTerra. The rest of the car, including the interior are
>perfect for a budget off-road thrasher. Too bad it's not good for off-road
use.
>


Very good point.

Also, I stand corrected on the Honda Element's ground clearance. The Honda's
spec is 6.9", not too shabby. Although I don't like the way the gas tank is
mounted.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <XO_sb.48$sb4.32@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> ,
josephoberlander@earthlink.net says...
>
>HarrierAWD wrote:
>
>> It's got very low clearance so it's really not designed to go offroad. Its
>> gas tank also hangs dangerously low underneath. Hopefully its AWD system
will
>
>> do OK on beach sand.
>
>Like I said - so close to having a budget vehicle that could compete with
>the Liberty and XTerra. The rest of the car, including the interior are
>perfect for a budget off-road thrasher. Too bad it's not good for off-road
use.
>


Very good point.

Also, I stand corrected on the Honda Element's ground clearance. The Honda's
spec is 6.9", not too shabby. Although I don't like the way the gas tank is
mounted.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <XO_sb.48$sb4.32@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net> ,
josephoberlander@earthlink.net says...
>
>HarrierAWD wrote:
>
>> It's got very low clearance so it's really not designed to go offroad. Its
>> gas tank also hangs dangerously low underneath. Hopefully its AWD system
will
>
>> do OK on beach sand.
>
>Like I said - so close to having a budget vehicle that could compete with
>the Liberty and XTerra. The rest of the car, including the interior are
>perfect for a budget off-road thrasher. Too bad it's not good for off-road
use.
>


Very good point.

Also, I stand corrected on the Honda Element's ground clearance. The Honda's
spec is 6.9", not too shabby. Although I don't like the way the gas tank is
mounted.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <8V7tb.380$sb4.266@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.ne t>, 1chip-state1
@earthlink.net.invalid says...
>>
>>
>> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
>> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
>> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
>> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
>> subscribers.
>>
>> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
>> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
>> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
>> your usage of Preparation H.
>
>CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
>They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
>differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
>than they deserve.
>
>A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
>underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
>your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.
>
>--
>
> ~~Philip


CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive engineers,
not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to understand
their reviews.

You value the backdoor favors at auto plants. I choose to trust CR's review
and survey results. Also Car&Driver, Motortrend, etc.

The point is that our auto makers need to wake up and compete by building
better quality automobiles, not to be ignorant like you.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <8V7tb.380$sb4.266@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.ne t>, 1chip-state1
@earthlink.net.invalid says...
>>
>>
>> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
>> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
>> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
>> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
>> subscribers.
>>
>> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
>> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
>> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
>> your usage of Preparation H.
>
>CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
>They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
>differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
>than they deserve.
>
>A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
>underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
>your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.
>
>--
>
> ~~Philip


CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive engineers,
not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to understand
their reviews.

You value the backdoor favors at auto plants. I choose to trust CR's review
and survey results. Also Car&Driver, Motortrend, etc.

The point is that our auto makers need to wake up and compete by building
better quality automobiles, not to be ignorant like you.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <8V7tb.380$sb4.266@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.ne t>, 1chip-state1
@earthlink.net.invalid says...
>>
>>
>> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
>> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
>> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
>> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
>> subscribers.
>>
>> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
>> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
>> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
>> your usage of Preparation H.
>
>CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
>They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
>differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
>than they deserve.
>
>A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
>underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
>your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.
>
>--
>
> ~~Philip


CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive engineers,
not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to understand
their reviews.

You value the backdoor favors at auto plants. I choose to trust CR's review
and survey results. Also Car&Driver, Motortrend, etc.

The point is that our auto makers need to wake up and compete by building
better quality automobiles, not to be ignorant like you.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <8V7tb.380$sb4.266@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.ne t>, 1chip-state1
@earthlink.net.invalid says...
>>
>>
>> So *you* have more credence than Consumer Reports annual survey on
>> quality and reliability? They survey 600,000 people each year vs.
>> you. You consider their reviews and surveys are "laughable"
>> because *you* refuse to face the truth. CR has 4 million paid
>> subscribers.
>>
>> You learn nothing at plant tour. It's just auto maker's PR
>> campaign. To get a real education, go to the library or go back
>> to school. Getting backdoor treatment at UAW plants only increase
>> your usage of Preparation H.
>
>CR's automotive division is a handful of evaluators and editors.
>They have their biases. They also have their priorities which often
>differ from mine. My point is you bless CR with far more credibility
>than they deserve.
>
>A visit to an assembly line is not valuable to a person with
>underdeveloped engineering or mechanical skills. So, I will note
>your projections with that apparent deficiency in mind.
>
>--
>
> ~~Philip


CR's auto eval process is very scientific and is done by automotive engineers,
not by the editors. You are apparently un-educated and ignorant to understand
their reviews.

You value the backdoor favors at auto plants. I choose to trust CR's review
and survey results. Also Car&Driver, Motortrend, etc.

The point is that our auto makers need to wake up and compete by building
better quality automobiles, not to be ignorant like you.

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <de-dnf-qJ5aUhiiiRVn-uA@comcast.com>, HarrierAWD wrote:

> You value the backdoor favors at auto plants.


Are we still talking about build quality *at all* here? :)

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <de-dnf-qJ5aUhiiiRVn-uA@comcast.com>, HarrierAWD wrote:

> You value the backdoor favors at auto plants.


Are we still talking about build quality *at all* here? :)

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <de-dnf-qJ5aUhiiiRVn-uA@comcast.com>, HarrierAWD wrote:

> You value the backdoor favors at auto plants.


Are we still talking about build quality *at all* here? :)

Re: Can Anything Stop Toyota?
 

In article <de-dnf-qJ5aUhiiiRVn-uA@comcast.com>, HarrierAWD wrote:

> You value the backdoor favors at auto plants.


Are we still talking about build quality *at all* here? :)